I believe photo ID is required in all cases but it does not need to be a passport. A provisional driving licence would suffice for example. Ryanair require a passport for flights in the Common Travel Area but I think they're the only operator who does, everyone else accepts government issued photo IDs.
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Eurostar collecting Advance Passenger Information
- Thread starter newmilton
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Cloud Strife
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Do you need a passport to go from NI to GB? Is that even allowed, given they are part of the same country?
Essentially, the whole thing is a massive bodge job. The CTA doesn't apply to non-British/Irish citizens, so what's happened is that they've quietly accepted that people travelling to NI from the RoI can do so if they're legally resident in the State of Ireland. As EU citizens are almost always legally resident, it's been very quietly agreed that RoI-NI travel can be carried out with ID cards. The UK was planning to introduce the ETA to the Irish border, but it's evidently completely unworkable to impose restrictions without having physical border controls at the Irish border and so the ETA is only required if you aren't legally resident in the state of Ireland (!).
So NI residents cannot visit GB if they don't have a passport, even if they travel by boat?
Exactly that, same with RoI residents. It's a bit of a mess, but it seems to be the most sensible solution without actually imposing border controls between GB and NI.
believe photo ID is required in all cases but it does not need to be a passport. A provisional driving licence would suffice for example.
Only for British and Irish citizens. Everyone else needs a passport in the RoI -> GB direction, while EU citizens can use their ID cards when going from GB to the RoI.
It won't look good if Ireland avoids joining Schengen when it doesn't have a good reason.
Ireland won't join Schengen in full unless there's a united Ireland. It's just completely unthinkable to impose passport checks on the Irish border in their situation.
Depending on their nationality some non EU citizen living in Donegal would need a full visit visa to do that journey on the direct route.
It's not required. The UK has agreed that anyone legally resident in the RoI can travel to the UK, including Northern Ireland for up to 2 months (6 months on the first visit).
Personally I would end the Common Travel Area if there is a united Ireland
If there is, then the most likely scenario is that there will be border controls between the two, but UK/Irish citizens will have free FoM between the two countries. Neither the UK nor Ireland is going to suddenly start treating the other country as foreign, especially given the very close connections between the two.
Oh sorry yes, I misunderstood and thought we were referring to British and Irish citizens!Only for British and Irish citizens. Everyone else needs a passport in the RoI -> GB direction, while EU citizens can use their ID cards when going from GB to the RoI.
So EU citizens living in Ireland can only stay here for 2 months, less than the 90 days many countries typically impose?It's not required. The UK has agreed that anyone legally resident in the RoI can travel to the UK, including Northern Ireland for up to 2 months (6 months on the first visit).
Is the condition the same for any foreigners visiting the UK from wherever? Or is it a specific strict rule on Irish residents who are not Irish nationals because they're worried about people using it as a "back door"?
Cloud Strife
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So EU citizens living in Ireland can only stay here for 2 months, less than the 90 days many countries typically impose?
Yes, that's essentially how it works.
Is the condition the same for any foreigners visiting the UK from wherever?
No, this is specifically relating to those legally resident in Ireland. It seems that the 2 month clock restarts as soon as you return to Ireland though, so essentially it's unenforceable.
It's a terrible mess and should be resolved through simply permitting legal residents of all CTA jurisdictions to travel freely for 3 months at a time provided they've got evidence of legal residence. Having said that, this is yet another example of why not accepting EU ID cards is a waste of time.
I think it was stated around the time of the brexit negotiations that the EU gave the UK a choice of accepting all EU ID cards or none. Cherry picking biometric only would breach the terms of the Trade and Co-operation agreement because it would mean unequal treatment of EU citizens. Following an EU law in 2021 all EU ID cards, including those issued by embassies and consulates are biometric but it will taken until 2031 until all in circulation are biometric. Until then all the non biometric cards, especially paper based national ID will be a target for fraud.
The EU would have accepted it if it was restricted to biometric documents, as they've been getting incredibly frustrated with the slow introduction of biometric ID cards. It was the UK that made a big needless fuss based on the alleged insecurity of these documents, although it could easily have been made clear that anyone with non-biometric documents would be checked in much more detail.
Trainbike46
Established Member
I'd add that there are often checks by merseyside police on arriving ferry passengers in Birkenhead. They ask for photo ID most of the time, but you don't actually have to provide any when it is not required by the relevant legislation and the CTA. Stena line recommends taking something that can act as ID - whether that be passport, voter ID, UK/ROI driver's licences, utility bill, etc.
I've seen them accept student cards, bus passes and photo railcards as well, though what is and isn't acceptable doesn't appear to be clearly defined. And what Merseyside police achieves by these checks is a mystery to me, at least beyond keeping police officers employed.
I've seen them accept student cards, bus passes and photo railcards as well, though what is and isn't acceptable doesn't appear to be clearly defined. And what Merseyside police achieves by these checks is a mystery to me, at least beyond keeping police officers employed.
The EU would have accepted it if it was restricted to biometric documents, as they've been getting incredibly frustrated with the slow introduction of biometric ID cards. It was the UK that made a big needless fuss based on the alleged insecurity of these documents, although it could easily have been made clear that anyone with non-biometric documents would be checked in much more detail.
Have you ever seen a paper national ID? Pre brexit I saw a friend's Italian national ID issued by a consulate and was staggered he could use it to enter the UK and other countries. It must be an obvious target for forgery for anyone who can pass for Italian. If the EUs position was no, why would the UK use negoiating capital to push to be allowed to accept biometric only? The EU would have expected a concession elsewhere in negotiations.
I'd add that there are often checks by merseyside police on arriving ferry passengers in Birkenhead. They ask for photo ID most of the time, but you don't actually have to provide any when it is not required by the relevant legislation and the CTA. Stena line recommends taking something that can act as ID - whether that be passport, voter ID, UK/ROI driver's licences, utility bill, etc.
I've seen them accept student cards, bus passes and photo railcards as well, though what is and isn't acceptable doesn't appear to be clearly defined. And what Merseyside police achieves by these checks is a mystery to me, at least beyond keeping police officers employed.
Any meaningful checks will be done electronically. I suspect they always have officers there so it doesn’t look odd when they are there to stop a specific person. Last time I took the Belfast to Birkenhead ferry the only people "randomly" stopped were four people in Islamic clothing. Irish police have a similar reputation for the same sort of random checks on buses and trains from Northern Ireland....
You beat me to this. My ex's family were Italian and l saw some of those up close.Have you ever seen a paper national ID? Pre brexit I saw a friend's Italian national ID issued by a consulate and was staggered he could use it to enter the UK and other countries. It must be an obvious target for forgery for anyone who can pass for Italian. If the EUs position was no, why would the UK use negoiating capital to push to be allowed to accept biometric only? The EU would have expected a concession elsewhere in negotiations.
It wasn't only forgery either. IDs are issued internally in Italy by local government structures. They hold, or more accurately l should say used to hold, stocks of blank cards. Thefts of those were far from unknown.
Ireland won't join Schengen in full unless there's a united Ireland. It's just completely unthinkable to impose passport checks on the Irish border in their situation.
It's not required. The UK has agreed that anyone legally resident in the RoI can travel to the UK, including Northern Ireland for up to 2 months (6 months on the first visit).
If there is, then the most likely scenario is that there will be border controls between the two, but UK/Irish citizens will have free FoM between the two countries. Neither the UK nor Ireland is going to suddenly start treating the other country as foreign, especially given the very close connections between the two.
Sorry I only saw your second post. I certainly agree that Ireland cannot join Schengen before a united Ireland.
The short stay visa waiver program only applies to a specific list of nationalities. My partner needs a visa to visit the Republic later this year. I can't find anything that says all Irish residents have visa free entry into the UK. I will be a bit annoyed if you are right and the UK has made a unilateral concession without thinking of its own non citizen residents.
I think a Trans Tasman style agreement would be the best option to reflect the relationship between Britain and a united Ireland. I don't think the historic ties should stretch to accepting each others criminals being residents once its no longer necessary. I have a soft spot for Ireland and considerable Irish ancestry but I think the closeness of ties causes too many problems and unrealistic expectations. A united Ireland would be an opportunity to have normal borders and intergovernmental relations but with some kind of agreement about each others citizens. UK and Ireland have very different trajectories and the direct of travel for their relationship is heading slowly towards "normal third country".
Brooke
Member
This week Eurostar seem to have introduced the ability to save your API information to your profile.
Good news for weekly commuters like me - I was starting to get bored of typing my passport number every week…
Good news for weekly commuters like me - I was starting to get bored of typing my passport number every week…