Manchester Metrolink (Non speculative discussion)

[jfollows]

Yes any multi modal journey is awful for price currently. My partner sometimes gets the train from Old Trafford to Birchwood and it costs £15. It definitely needs sorting out. When it is improved, it will lead to increases in demand. I think there's valid questions whether the Stockport rail corridor could cope with usage at peak times in that scenario.

There appear to be fares in the reverse direction only, https://www.brfares.com/!expert?orig=BWD&dest=QMB&period=20240401

 

[Grimsby town]

There appear to be fares in the reverse direction only, https://www.brfares.com/!expert?orig=BWD&dest=QMB&period=20240401

To be honest I forgot you could buy through rail Metrolink tickets but as you say its in the opposite direction. That would impact the Stockport cost but my point stands that it's still significantly more expensive than a Metrolink link fare would be. I'd also question how aware the general public or even station staff are of such tickets.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

My partner sometimes gets the train from Old Trafford to Birchwood and it costs £15. It definitely needs sorting out.

Should only be £14.50. £4.30 for the Zone 1-2 anytime day travelcard. Then £10.20 for an Anytime Day Return from Manchester Stns to Birchwood. Instant 50p saving!

 

[jfollows]

To be honest I forgot you could buy through rail Metrolink tickets but as you say its in the opposite direction. That would impact the Stockport cost but my point stands that it's still significantly more expensive than a Metrolink link fare would be. I'd also question how aware the general public or even station staff are of such tickets.

I’ve never had any problem buying a through ticket from Wilmslow, the station staff had no problem with it.

 

[geoffk]

The Government's Network North document committed to electrification of the Hope Valley line and three fast trains per hour between Sheffield and Manchester, which as you say might well need the Reddish North line. Plans are also being developed for capacity enhancements of the Stockport line (Manchester Task Force Configuration State 4) to accommodate HS2 services to Piccadilly, now that HS2 Phase 2 has been cancelled. The Reddish North line will likely be needed as a diversionary route for the existing fast Sheffield services during work on the Stockport line.

Can't the extra Sheffield fasts run via Guide Bridge and Woodley?

 

[Grimsby town]

I’ve never had any problem buying a through ticket from Wilmslow, the station staff had no problem with it.

Yes I'm sure most do. The general public won't though. It shows how badly the fare system needs reforming in this country.

Should only be £14.50. £4.30 for the Zone 1-2 anytime day travelcard. Then £10.20 for an Anytime Day Return from Manchester Stns to Birchwood. Instant 50p saving!

I was rounding.

 

[jfollows]

Yes I'm sure most do. The general public won't though. It shows how badly the fare system needs reforming in this country.

You appear to be trying to make things look worse than they are.

I agree that it’s a mess, that things like through tickets to the central zone aren’t included for those of us who start our journeys in Cheshire or elsewhere outside Greater Manchester, but it’s not all bad.

I have no idea about someone else turning up at Wilmslow and asking for a through ticket to Sale, or elsewhere on Metrolink, but I have never had a problem or had to insist.

EDIT I accept that the memory of through trains Wilmslow to Sale every 15 minutes and therefore through tickets may have faded from the general recollection since they were replaced.

 

[Grimsby town]

You appear to be trying to make things look worse than they are.

I agree that it’s a mess, that things like through tickets to the central zone aren’t included for those of us who start our journeys in Cheshire or elsewhere outside Greater Manchester, but it’s not all bad.

I have no idea about someone else turning up at Wilmslow and asking for a through ticket to Sale, or elsewhere on Metrolink, but I have never had a problem or had to insist.

EDIT I accept that the memory of through trains Wilmslow to Sale every 15 minutes and therefore through tickets may have faded from the general recollection since they were replaced.

I'm not trying to make it look worse. As i say its an honest mistake that I forgot those tickets existed. The thing is I don't own a car, I use rail regularly and my jobs in transport, yet I managed to forgot those tickets. The general public won't know about tickets that don't appear on journey planners.

My point stands that trams will always be cheaper via East Didsbury. That doesn't make the case by itself but It contributes to the case. There a lot of other reasons for tram system to Stockport. It seems like some of those arguing against it are doing so on the basis that Stockport will never change. There are plans for huge amounts of development there with more homes, offices, leisure facilities, and maybe even a new hospital.

Edit:
Although having checked, joint Metrolink rail fares are advertised on the Bee Network website so perhaps people are more familiar than I realise. It'd be interesting to know what the take up is.

 

[edwin_m]

There may be good reasons for Metrolink to Stockport but avoiding paying multiple fares isn't one of them. Integration of rail, bus and tram ticketing under the Bee Network should iron out these inconsistencies in time.

 

[Grimsby town]

There may be good reasons for Metrolink to Stockport but avoiding paying multiple fares isn't one of them. Integration of rail, bus and tram ticketing under the Bee Network should iron out these inconsistencies in time.

But it's not paying the multiple fares that is the issue. Its the fact that travelling via the city centre will almost always be more expensive than travelling via East Didsbury would be. The only way to solve that issue would be a flat fare system which isn't being considered and rightly so in my opinion.

 

[Greybeard33]

Can't the extra Sheffield fasts run via Guide Bridge and Woodley?

The Hyde to Romiley line is unsuitable for fast trains. It is twisty and slow. The Ashburys to Romiley line is straight and the route is considerably shorter than via Guide Bridge. It could have the linespeed increased to give a journey time similar to the Stockport route.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yes any multi modal journey is awful for price currently. My partner sometimes gets the train from Old Trafford to Birchwood and it costs £15.

Where is this Old Trafford railway station that you refer to?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Where is this Old Trafford railway station that you refer to?

Probably
Old Trafford -(Tram)-> Manchester (Deansgate or Piccadilly) (£3.50 day ticket, £2.80 single)
then
Manchester Stations -(Train)-> Birchwood (£10.20 Anytime return, £8.60 Off-Peak return, £7.70 single)

Although that combo's most expencive is £13.70, maybe a bus is involved somewhere to push it to £15.70

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Probably
Old Trafford -(Tram)-> Manchester (Deansgate or Piccadilly) (£3.50 day ticket, £2.80 single)
then
Manchester Stations -(Train)-> Birchwood (£10.20 Anytime return, £8.60 Off-Peak return, £7.70 single)

Although that combo's most expencive is £13.70, maybe a bus is involved somewhere to push it to £15.70

Old Trafford Metrolink tram stop to Manchester City Centre is £4.30 for an Anytime 1 day travelcard (return).

(£3.50 is the equivalent Off Peak 1 day travelcard price).

 

[Northerngirl]

Isn't there a bus + tram + train ticket for about £10

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Isn't there a bus + tram + train ticket for about £10

The Wayfarer costs £16.90 for an adult.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Why is there such a reluctance to progress the remaining segments of the original plan, in particular conversion of the line via Reddish to Rose Hill which could be done without the use of tram-trains using parallel light and heavy rail single lines between Romiley and Marple Wharf Junction and a short reserved tramway between Piccadilly and Ashburys? There is no longer an excuse that Piccadilly station needs to be redesigned to accommodate HS2 trains arriving on a separate line now that HS2 phase 2b has been killed off. I agree that it might be better to leave the existing line to Hadfield as an electrified heavy rail line, as it extends outwith Greater Manchester and its western end is used extensively by other heavy rail services.

The HS2 alignment into Manchester, and the NPR extension eastwards to Marsden, is still in play while the NPR route is developed from Liverpool to Leeds.
The move of Piccadilly HS station underground, desired by Andy Burnham, is still not planned.
All that's certain is that the HS2 bill for the route from Rostherne into Manchester, and the new surface station at Piccadilly, is still alive in parliament.

 

[daodao]

The HS2 alignment into Manchester, and the NPR extension eastwards to Marsden, is still in play while the NPR route is developed from Liverpool to Leeds.
The move of Piccadilly HS station underground, desired by Andy Burnham, is still not planned.
All that's certain is that the HS2 bill for the route from Rostherne into Manchester, and the new surface station at Piccadilly, is still alive in parliament.

Thanks for the clarification. However, this is just causing planning blight, as the BCR for this line for NPR alone without the HS2 traffic will be even poorer, so the likelihood of it actually being built is therefore likely to be low. It is disappointing that this NPR proposal is delaying the expansion of Metrolink east of Piccadilly.

 

[Bungle965]

The Wayfarer costs £16.90 for an adult.

That often isn’t the best value ticket, GM Daysaver TBM (Train,Bus,Metrolink) is £11.20.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Isn't there a bus + tram + train ticket for about £10

The Wayfarer costs £16.90 for an adult.

That often isn’t the best value ticket, GM Daysaver TBM (Train,Bus,Metrolink) is £11.20.

Depends of course, when and where you're travelling. The multi-mode tickets tend not to be valid on all available modes before 9.30 a.m. on a weekday. Also, the GM DaySaver has further restrictions if travelling on the GM rail network late afternoon.

 

[Northerngirl]

That often isn’t the best value ticket, GM Daysaver TBM (Train,Bus,Metrolink) is £11.20.

That's probably the one I'm thinking of

 

[Mcr Warrior]

That often isn’t the best value ticket, GM Daysaver TBM (Train,Bus,Metrolink) is £11.20.

If you don't need the bus add on, it's £9.90.

 

[MetrolinkInsYT]

Where does a Metrolink line really start? I've found it interesting that almost every source on the internet says that the Metrolink has eight lines, but most of the city centre isn't included (Deansgate-Altrincham = Altrincham Line) (Deansgate-Victoria via Market Street = ??)

Other sources say that all Metrolink lines begin from the delta junction in Piccadilly Gardens (Delta junction-Altrincham = Altrincham Line??), but this breaks down when the 2CC is taken into account. (Oldham and Rochdale Line = Corporation/Cross St-Rochdale??)


I'm trying to convince myself that there are 12 lines:
(Bury, O+R, E Manc., S Manc., Airport, Alty, Trafford Pk., Eccles, MediaCity spur?, Piccadilly spur, 1CC, 2CC)
I'm still wondering if I'm correct.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I'm trying to convince myself that there are 12 lines:
(Bury, O+R, E Manc., S Manc., Airport, Alty, Trafford Pk., Eccles, MediaCity spur?, Piccadilly spur, 1CC, 2CC)
I'm still wondering if I'm correct.

What's the Piccadilly Spur? The bit connecting Market Street and Piccadilly?

I feel like that ought to be counted alongside E Manc (Ashton), even if most of the trams that use it only go to Piccadilly.

 

[MetrolinkInsYT]

What's the Piccadilly Spur? The bit connecting Market Street and Piccadilly?

I feel like that ought to be counted alongside E Manc (Ashton), even if most of the trams that use it only go to Piccadilly.

Spur to Piccadilly from the delta junction opened on 20 July 1992. Again, I don't know if it should count, but it seems logical since the E Manc Line opened separately from it (in 2013).

edit: I made the decisions above based on how the lines opened. Victoria-Deansgate opened 27 Apr 1992, so I counted that as 1CC. The spur off of 1CC to Piccadilly opened separately, so I counted that small section as one 'line'.

 

[Mothball]

Where does a Metrolink line really start? I've found it interesting that almost every source on the internet says that the Metrolink has eight lines, but most of the city centre isn't included (Deansgate-Altrincham = Altrincham Line) (Deansgate-Victoria via Market Street = ??)

Other sources say that all Metrolink lines begin from the delta junction in Piccadilly Gardens (Delta junction-Altrincham = Altrincham Line??), but this breaks down when the 2CC is taken into account. (Oldham and Rochdale Line = Corporation/Cross St-Rochdale??)


I'm trying to convince myself that there are 12 lines:
(Bury, O+R, E Manc., S Manc., Airport, Alty, Trafford Pk., Eccles, MediaCity spur?, Piccadilly spur, 1CC, 2CC)
I'm still wondering if I'm correct.

It depends how you define what a line is.

To me in most light rail contexts it is the regular services, so Rochdale-Didsbury, Bury-Pic, Bury-Alt Etc so multiple lines will use the same sections of track.

You could say it is where the permanent way is set that comes with its own inconsistencies. Is the Bury line Victoria-Bury and the Rochdale Line Irk Valley Junction-Rochdale, what line would Deansgate-Cornbrook be with so many destinations possible.

 

[507 001]

There’s no real answer to that question to be honest.

The only real marker is the point at which inbound and outbound lines switch, which is the Delta Junction or the Market Street Road junction on 2CC.

I personally class anything between Trafford Bar junction/Cornbrook Junction and Piccadilly/Irk Valley junctions as ‘the core’ but that’s just me.

 

[MetrolinkInsYT]

It depends how you define what a line is.

To me in most light rail contexts it is the regular services, so Rochdale-Didsbury, Bury-Pic, Bury-Alt Etc so multiple lines will use the same sections of track.

Rochdale-Didsbury, Bury-Piccadilly, Bury-Altrincham etc. are the different routes, or at least that's what I think is simpler. The "Yellow Line" and the "Bury Line" are two different things after all.

You could say it is where the permanent way is set that comes with its own inconsistencies. Is the Bury line Victoria-Bury and the Rochdale Line Irk Valley Junction-Rochdale, what line would Deansgate-Cornbrook be with so many destinations possible.

Deansgate-Cornbrook, going off of my previous 'how the lines opened' logic would be on the Altrincham Line, since the Altrincham Line opened all at once between Deansgate and Altrincham, but again that's just what's simpler for me.

I personally class anything between Trafford Bar junction/Cornbrook Junction and Piccadilly/Irk Valley junctions as ‘the core’ but that’s just me.

That is close to what Wikipedia seems to do with it. Most articles related to Metrolink just count Zone 1 as its own 'line' and leave it at that,
meaning that the Alty Line begins immediately south of Cornbrook (even before Cornbrook Junc), the Bury Line begins ~600m east of Victoria, and the East Manc Line begins somewhere on Merrill Street, but I think that doesn't make sense.
New Islington's article, for example, used to say it was on the 'Zone 1' line.


As I have said, I just count a line based on how it opened, meaning that the city centre is split into 1CC (Vic-Deansgate via Market St), 2CC (Lower Mosley St-Vic via Exchange Sq), and the spur to Piccadilly, which all opened separately from each other, and the E Manc Line begins just outside of Piccadilly's undercroft near Sheffield St.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

We are really getting far deeper than I thought possible on this Manchester Metrolink thread, with this very deep discussion that sees minor track sections given their own special route identifiers.

 

[507 001]

Rochdale-Didsbury, Bury-Piccadilly, Bury-Altrincham etc. are the different routes, or at least that's what I think is simpler. The "Yellow Line" and the "Bury Line" are two different things after all.

Deansgate-Cornbrook, going off of my previous 'how the lines opened' logic would be on the Altrincham Line, since the Altrincham Line opened all at once between Deansgate and Altrincham, but again that's just what's simpler for me.

That is close to what Wikipedia seems to do with it. Most articles related to Metrolink just count Zone 1 as its own 'line' and leave it at that,
meaning that the Alty Line begins immediately south of Cornbrook (even before Cornbrook Junc), the Bury Line begins ~600m east of Victoria, and the East Manc Line begins somewhere on Merrill Street, but I think that doesn't make sense.
New Islington's article, for example, used to say it was on the 'Zone 1' line.


As I have said, I just count a line based on how it opened, meaning that the city centre is split into 1CC (Vic-Deansgate via Market St), 2CC (Lower Mosley St-Vic via Exchange Sq), and the spur to Piccadilly, which all opened separately from each other, and the E Manc Line begins just outside of Piccadilly's undercroft near Sheffield St.

Hence why I said there’s no real answer to that question.

FYI, we don’t use the line colours internally either. The lines are known by their destination the vast majority of the time, and very occasionally by ORL/SML/EML for the new lines.

The colours seem to have made their way from the map into Google/Apple Maps and people assume we use them. If you ask me where to get the yellow line for example I wouldn’t have a clue.