Plusbus farce at Glasgow Central

[Tazi Hupefi]

The issue with staff complaints is that for every genuine one, there's a far higher number of either completely bogus or unjustified complaints from disaffected passengers. That's before you get to the increasing number of cranks, enthusiasts etc with some quite bizarre requests and suggestions that often marked as such.

Most TOCs have a policy of not awarding any compensation (vouchers etc) in respect of a staff complaint except in pretty exceptional circumstances because historically all it did was encourage people to make up, or embellish an issue that did not exist, or did not go how the passenger described.

That doesn't mean that feedback is not appropriately documented and reviewed - or that it is not valued by a TOC. Aside from the TOC, the ORR is really quite interested in the category of complaint/feedback that a TOC receives, and does identify patterns/problems from that. So a widespread ticket issuing problem would not go unnoticed if there is indeed, a genuine problem and customers take the time to complain.

 

[northwichcat]

Queue up at the Scotrail ticket counter, and then be told politely where to go?

The railway, helpful as ever.

I can just imagine how this works.

Passenger A - Can I get a return to Lockerbie please.

Ticket clerk - That'll be X

Passenger A - When's the next train?

Ticket clerk - That'll be the TransPennine service departing in 12 minutes

Ticket clerk "NEXT PLEASE"

Passenger B - When's the next train to Carlisle?

Ticket clerk - That'll be the TransPennine service departing in 11 minutes

Passenger B - Can I buy a return ticket?

Ticket clerk - Not here you can't.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The overall impression I get is that Scott Rail want to only deal with their own services and somewhat begrudgingly those of cross border operators that then continue further than a major terminal station on Scottish metals, I suspect the only reason booking offices in Lockerbie and Dumfries, and to a far lesser extent some stations in Ayreshire sell cross border tickets at all is because either one of their direct services goes there or because they run a train from that station that connects into a cross border train, just the same attitude which ultimately stinks a bit and appears to be another outpost of the anti-englishness that has become a growing thing north of the border exist on board trains? Or are on board conductors and or ticket sellers simply happy to sell what they can when and where they can because someone purchasing say for example a full fat anytime return from Kinghorn to London terminals provides that seller with a couple of beer tokens for the weekend?

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Not quite sure why the PlusBus wasn't sold, but as far as I'm aware, the arrangement of Scottish destinations only has historically been because of the Intercity/ScotRail different business units originally having different fare manuals, products etc. It probably made sense back then.

I suspect the reason it hasn't changed is that, largely, the retailer commission doesn't need to be split if Avanti are largely selling their tickets and ScotRail there own.

 

[WAB]

Not quite sure why the PlusBus wasn't sold, but as far as I'm aware, the arrangement of Scottish destinations only has historically been because of the Intercity/ScotRail different business units originally having different fare manuals, products etc. It probably made sense back then.

I suspect the reason it hasn't changed is that, largely, the retailer commission doesn't need to be split if Avanti are largely selling their tickets and ScotRail there own.

Do the sales made at Glasgow Central still justify two separate booking offices? Are there any other stations with multiple booking offices?

 

[Haywain]

Do the sales made at Glasgow Central still justify two separate booking offices? Are there any other stations with multiple booking offices?

London St Pancras has two that sit side by side, operated by Thameslink and East Midlands Railway.

 

[WestCoast]

I can’t speak for the larger stations where there is maybe more politics involved, but I have been assisted with a couple of TOD issues and long-distance bookings by Scotrail staff at Glasgow suburban stations without issue. There’s one member of staff who regularly works at Exhibition Centre who is particularly friendly and seems to enjoy selling more complicated stuff asking about the trips I do. Had a good 20 minute chat about the pros and cons of the sleeper last time I was there!

 

[redreni]

London St Pancras has two that sit side by side, operated by Thameslink and East Midlands Railway.

I often see longish queues at the Thameslink ticket office while the people at the EMR one sit staring into space.

I guess a lot of people just don't see the EMR one or else assume (wrongly but not unreasonably) that they each only sell tickets for their own trains.

I've often wondered why EMR, if resigned to paying the wages of their ticket office clerks, don't try to earn a bit more commission by putting some sort of poster in the window to the effect of "Welcome! Please come in! We sell the full range of National Rail tickets. We also sell Travelcards".

Maybe they're content to have people think they need to buy from the operator they intend to travel with because they get all or nearly all of the revenue from tickets sold for journeys up the Midland Mainline and those fares tend to be higher anyway. Wouldn't want people buying a ticket to Nottingham from next door, would we?

 

[Haywain]

assume (wrongly but not unreasonably) that they each only sell tickets for their own trains.

That would be slghtly odd as neither have any external TOC branding.

 

[redreni]

That would be slghtly odd as neither have any external TOC branding.

Does the EMR one not have a glass front wall, with glass doors, revealing an interior decked out in EMR's corporate colours (including carpet and furnishings)? Can't remember exactly where the EMR logo is displayed but I seem to recall it's pretty prominent and visible from outside.

Put it this way; I knew exactly which company operated it purely by dint of having walked past it.

 

[Haywain]

Does the EMR one not have a glass front wall, with glass doors, revealing an interior decked out in EMR's corporate colours (including carpet and furnishings)? Can't remember exactly where the EMR logo is displayed but I seem to recall it's pretty prominent and visible from outside.

In both cases the external signage says something to the effect of "National Rail Tickets". Whilst there may be some indications of the TOC operator inside, that isn't external signage and it is not permitted to be branding as that would fail to comply with impartial retailing requirements.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Does the EMR one not have a glass front wall, with glass doors, revealing an interior decked out in EMR's corporate colours (including carpet and furnishings)? Can't remember exactly where the EMR logo is displayed but I seem to recall it's pretty prominent and visible from outside.

Put it this way; I knew exactly which company operated it purely by dint of having walked past it.

It's not sustainable - once GTR and Southeastern get properly involved in e-tickets, one of them will have to close.

Almost all customers using EMR tickets to/from London (not involving a LU transfer) are now barcode or smartcard.

The new world under a Labour government would presumably resolve this anyway, easy saving to be had consolidating two booking offices into one, and nobody would notice.

 

[redreni]

In both cases the external signage says something to the effect of "National Rail Tickets". Whilst there may be some indications of the TOC operator inside, that isn't external signage and it is not permitted to be branding as that would fail to comply with impartial retailing requirements.

Interesting. I'd say the glass front is a pretty effective way of making the internal branding and signage very noticeable from outside the ticket office. A happy accident or ingenious design, I've no idea.

 

[43066]

Maybe they're content to have people think they need to buy from the operator they intend to travel with because they get all or nearly all of the revenue from tickets sold for journeys up the Midland Mainline and those fares tend to be higher anyway. Wouldn't want people buying a ticket to Nottingham from next door, would we?

They won’t care either way because all the revenue goes to the DfT and they get paid a management fee regardless.

It's not sustainable - once GTR and Southeastern get properly involved in e-tickets, one of them will have to close.

Not sure that follows - both still seem pretty busy. The EMR one has quite a few users from the shires who are clueless about onward connections etc. so provides a useful service in that respect.

 

[Red Rover]

People do try to buy this ticket without rail tickets or try to use expired tickets as they’re cheaper than bus day rangers a lot of the time especially with the railcard discount.

Sadly too often the case - management very keen to investigate abuse of staff but not so keen when it's abuse by staff of customers - yet there are times when it does get sorted and I celebrate those moments really. Be positive. Stagecoach took 'appropriate disciplinary action' against a coach driver who I reported for making jokes about being drunk.

I sincerely disagree with those sentiments.

 

[redreni]

People do try to buy this ticket without rail tickets or try to use expired tickets as they’re cheaper than bus day rangers a lot of the time especially with the railcard discount.

I'm sure they do, but I don't see how refusing to sell Plusbus tickets to people who have got a rail ticket addresses the first issue?

And surely the second issue is a matter for bus drivers and inspectors to worry about? The risk that somebody may try to use a ticket after it has expired surely applies to every ticket a railway ticket office ever sells?

 

[Red Rover]

I'm sure they do, but I don't see how refusing to sell Plusbus tickets to people who have got a rail ticket addresses the first issue?

And surely the second issue is a matter for bus drivers and inspectors to worry about? The risk that somebody may try to use a ticket after it has expired surely applies to every ticket a railway ticket office ever sells?

I think I was replying to a comment further up but didn’t link it I apologise, a plus bus is only valid with an in date rail ticket, surely you wouldn’t want TO’s selling tickets that they aren’t supposed to? That’s the flip side of this thread, we can’t win.

 

[WAB]

I think I was replying to a comment further up but didn’t link it I apologise, a plus bus is only valid with an in date rail ticket, surely you wouldn’t want TO’s selling tickets that they aren’t supposed to? That’s the flip side of this thread, we can’t win.

But that’s not the issue. Right from the start, the OP said they presented valid train tickets. Therefore booking clerks can win by simply doing their job in compliance with the rules…

 

[redreni]

I think I was replying to a comment further up but didn’t link it I apologise, a plus bus is only valid with an in date rail ticket, surely you wouldn’t want TO’s selling tickets that they aren’t supposed to? That’s the flip side of this thread, we can’t win.

Oh, I see what you mean. You could always check the date on the ticket.

By the way, I agree entirely with your response to the user who came perilously close to saying he rejoices in getting staff into serious trouble.

Personally I have complained twice to my recollection about poor customer service at a ticket office, once last year and once about 15 years ago, and on neither occasion did I make any attempt to give the company the information it would need to identify the individual concerned. All I wanted was for management to remind staff what they should and shouldn't be doing.

 

[edgar13]

I guess a lot of people just don't see the EMR one or else assume (wrongly but not unreasonably) that they each only sell tickets for their own trains.

Not just passengers, their own staff seem to think so too. Attempted to purchase a Kent Rover at St Pancras Thameslink ticket office, got refused by staff. Walked next door and the EMR office happily sold me one.

(Ironically Thameslink serves Kent and EMR doesn't, although the rover is not valid on either of them)

 

[smsm1]

Almost every time I buy a PlusBus ticket from the gate line staff at Haymarket and Edinburgh (no ticket office at local station and don't always get ticket check in time) I have to explain how they need to issue them. It would be so much quicker if they could be issued as e-tickets or on a smart card.

Being able to buy the kids for a quid ticket online would also help too, as can only be issued by train or ticket office staff. Need to have an adult ticket issued along side so don't know why it can't be done. Granted cases when split ticketing where you don't want to then split the kids for a quid part making it more complex.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Almost every time I buy a PlusBus ticket from the gate line staff at Haymarket and Edinburgh (no ticket office at local station and don't always get ticket check in time) I have to explain how they need to issue them. It would be so much quicker if they could be issued as e-tickets or on a smart card.

Being able to buy the kids for a quid ticket online would also help too, as can only be issued by train or ticket office staff. Need to have an adult ticket issued along side so don't know why it can't be done. Granted cases when split ticketing where you don't want to then split the kids for a quid part making it more complex.

E-Ticket versions aren't far away. There are a handful of PlusBus tickets in the GWR area that already are able to be issued as an e-ticket as part of a trial.

The "Ticketer" validation machines on most buses these days have also had an update to read rail Aztec codes, which should allow even greater ticket acceptance beyond PlusBus, however still requires a fair bit of setup at each operator - but it is coming, certainly at the larger operators.