dangie
Established Member
Just out of interest, has any Power Sharing deal ever been successful? Are they doomed to failure from the start?
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SNP ends power sharing with the Scottish Greens - Humza Yousaf resigns as SNP leader
- Thread starter YorkRailFan
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RailUK Forums
Depends on your definition. I would argue that the Tory-Lib Dem coalition was successful in providing a stable government (perhaps to everyone's surprise) that ran for a full term between 2010 and 2015 (almost feels like a golden era now
) but, of course, it was an utter catastrophe for the Lib Dems in that 2015 election with them losing 49 seats down to 8 from their original 57 they held following the 2010 election.
Yes. The first two terms of the Scottish Parliament were Lab/Lib coalitions. Labour had three First Ministers; Donald Dewar (died in office), Henry McLeish (left under a cloud) and Jack McConnell. Deputy FM was Jim Wallace of the LibDems.
HullRailMan
Member
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- 364
Independence is certainly dead for at least the next decade because we’re likely to have a pro-union government in both London and Edinburgh by the end of the year. Plus, with the Conservatives likely out of office in Westminster, the SNP will no longer have their go-to bogeyman to blame everything on.
YorkRailFan
On Moderation
I believe this was the no confidence motion filed against the Scottish Government by Scottish Labour, with the Scottish Tories dropping their no confidence vote in Yousaf after Yousaf resigned. The Scottish Greens and Alba both voted in favour of the Scottish Government in this case.
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
No surprise minorities don't want a Scottish election they might lose their seats
Yes not a surprise. The Greens were, understandably, furious with Yousaf. There was never any suggestion that they would vote down the Government in its entirety. So having got their man there was always going to be a ceasefire.
renegademaster
Member
The other main candidates are as conservative on the issue that caused all this than Yousaf is though
Yes but they've not booted the Green's ignominiously out of a power sharing agreement unlike Yousaf.
renegademaster
Member
I thought he did it to preempt what the greens where planning to do anyway?
Yes, but the Greens were intending to put the issue to the party membership first. It may well have had the same outcome, but it would probably have been more amicable.
DelW
Established Member
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- 3,906
The Greens were cross that they were pushed out before they had a chance to flounce out of their own volition. Like much of modern politics, it's the tantrums of a toddler birthday party writ large. The ultimate example is Trump, who seems to be having a permanent lifelong tantrum.
I believe Alba voted against the government. Only the SNP and Greens backed the government.
Purple Train
Established Member
Kate Forbes has announced that she will not stand, and back John Swinney instead, in return for a role in government (BBC link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c88zvgl9y9go).
Probably a sensible move by Forbes - much as I like her, with the current composition of the Scottish Parliament she'd be in a rather difficult position given she is very much persona non grata to the Greens. Swinney is a safer pair of hands to get the SNP focused on governing again until the next election: hopefully they won't be as ravaged by other-bashing and finger-pointing as they have been.
Falcon1200
Established Member
A failed ex-leader from 20 (twenty) years ago getting his old job back - More Back to the Past than Forward to the Future. The Union is safe.
Swinney isn't exactly a sparkling candidate, but I think that's what's needed at the moment. I wasn't sure about Forbes taking the leadership the last time around and I'm not sure now. I suspect she'll end up with deputy First Minister and we'll get a chance to see how she performs when deputising. I would rather there was an actual contest, though.
Busaholic
Veteran Member
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- 14,140
He'll do for the SNP what Michael Howard did for the Tories. I was tempted to use the Liz Truss comparison, but that would have been too cruel.
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
Agreed. The other thing is, it looks very likely that the SNP will lose a substantial number of seats in the Westminster general election, and possibly the next Scottish Parliament elections too, and it may now be too late for any leader to prevent that. By not being leader now, Kate Forbes won't get tainted with that electoral setback, so will probably be in a stronger position to stand for leader after those elections - since it looks like John Swinney is unlikely to have any long term leadership ambitions anyway.
317 forever
Established Member
I agree that Kate probably wanted to stay away from the leadership for the reasons you outline. By (presumably) securing a strong role back in Scottish government, she will be better known and more broadly experienced to stand for leader after a plausible SNP defeat in 2026. If we get a Labour UK government later this year, they and any Labour-led Scottish government could be sufficiently unpopular in Scotland by 2031 to enable Kate as then SNP leader - following the resignation by defeated First Minister John Swinney - to lead the SNP back to government.
Stathern Jc
Member
Sounds quite good reasoning.
Another possibility by 2026 (not wishing to drift too far from the subject of this thread) is that we could have something we've not been used to in recent times. Both governments being led by the same party (whether with a majority or otherwise), bringing a better level of co-operation which should be better for all, and meaning that neither would be quite so likely to have gone stale with the voters by 2031.
Another possibility by 2026 (not wishing to drift too far from the subject of this thread) is that we could have something we've not been used to in recent times. Both governments being led by the same party (whether with a majority or otherwise), bringing a better level of co-operation which should be better for all, and meaning that neither would be quite so likely to have gone stale with the voters by 2031.
Blindtraveler
Established Member
Cooperation would certainly be nice. I'm currently doing quite a lot of freelance and subcontract work for an organisation that has effectively had its wings clipped by the division and division separatist agenda north of the border and now that the political system north of the border has very much got its trousers down and isn't paying attention. We are trying to develop a more United cross Nations approach which interestingly isn't frowned upon by Wales or Northern Ireland in quite the same way politically
YorkRailFan
On Moderation
Now we wait and see if the Scottish Parliament approves Swinney for First Minister.
There we go, unsurprising.
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Purple Train
Established Member
And, also unsurprisingly, Patrick Harvie has reacted quite strongly to Kate Forbes's appointment (BBC link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68976320):
Obviously he has his right to disagree with her views, but is such loaded language as that really necessary? The lack of courtesy in politics even when compared to 15-20 years ago is quite concerning, in my view.
He is making valid points, though, and I'm not sure it's particularly loaded. The SNP have been selling themselves as the progressive choice for Scotland, and that is not compatible with the Deputy FM being strongly conservative.
This is the same guy who told the BBC that the Cass report was ‘not a valid scientific document’. Now whatever your views on gender identity, the fact he stated this clearly shows the guy has zero idea about science, which is extremely worrying considering science is absolutely vital to understanding and advocating for key ‘Green’ policies on global warming, energy and the environment, and that he clearly has zero regard for evidence based politics. As someone who regards these environmental issues as fundamental to the future governance of not just this country, but the world itself, the sooner we see the back of him the better.
HullRailMan
Member
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People have certainly lost the ability to both debate and disagree with each other respectfully. Using terms of abuse or disrespectful language to describe your opponents is a particular trait of the ‘kind’ far-left.
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
Just noticed this bit in the BBC report quoted in the last few posts:
Can we hope that this means John Swinney might be planning to focus a bit more on his job of governing the country rather than on agitating for independence?
Can we hope that this means John Swinney might be planning to focus a bit more on his job of governing the country rather than on agitating for independence?
Blindtraveler
Established Member
I very much doubt it's by choice, but the reality is that focusing on independence is neither in the public interest or in that of the taxpayer just at this moment
What will be more interesting to me is to see if the blame Westminster for absolutely everything from the wrong kind of toilet paper in in the ministerial bathrooms to major world issues still stands or maybe if with his Captain sensible outfit firmly in place, he'll seek for a bit of basic cooperation no matter how much of a bad taste it leaves in his mouth
When I say that independence is currently not in the public interest, I am not saying that. The cause and the idea or indeed the supporters have said cause have gone away because they haven't
But compared to a decade or so ago when you could barely go out for a pint of milk without meeting an independent supporter handing out leaflets or a demo of some kind are now gone and are unlikely to return for a while and people have other priorities like a ferry fleet that actually works and a health Service that's not in crisis and an education system. That was once the jewel in the crown in Europe and that has now sadly gone more than a little bit. Floppy
What will be more interesting to me is to see if the blame Westminster for absolutely everything from the wrong kind of toilet paper in in the ministerial bathrooms to major world issues still stands or maybe if with his Captain sensible outfit firmly in place, he'll seek for a bit of basic cooperation no matter how much of a bad taste it leaves in his mouth
When I say that independence is currently not in the public interest, I am not saying that. The cause and the idea or indeed the supporters have said cause have gone away because they haven't
But compared to a decade or so ago when you could barely go out for a pint of milk without meeting an independent supporter handing out leaflets or a demo of some kind are now gone and are unlikely to return for a while and people have other priorities like a ferry fleet that actually works and a health Service that's not in crisis and an education system. That was once the jewel in the crown in Europe and that has now sadly gone more than a little bit. Floppy