Blackpool Trams News

[davehsug]

Just opening this, as there doesn't seem to be a general Blackpool thread, the last one has been locked. Please feel free to adjust as you see fit mods.

I wondered if there was any news on when the North Station line may be opening? I've not seen anything in the Blackpool Gazzette, and I thought that the hotel was due for completion early this year?

 

[Towers]

Just to note my approval of said topic

 

[duncanp]

Just done a quick search, and this article has the following important points.

“The tramway extension is complete and the trams have been successfully tested. The overhead wires have been taken down to enable work to be undertaken at the hotel.”

The 144 room hotel on Talbot Road has been built as part of a £34m project including a new tram terminal and underpass linking the terminal to North Station.
The hotel, which will include a Marco’s New York Italian restaurant, and create around 70 jobs, is due to open in time for the 2023 Illuminations season, but the tramway extension will open earlier - hopefully late spring or early summer.

https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/business/blackpool-regeneration-tramway-extension-holiday-inn-frasers-backlot-cinema-wilkos-blackpool-central-these-are-the-key-developments-in-2023-3968064

Blackpool regeneration: Tramway extension, Holiday Inn, Fraser's, Backlot Cinema, Wilkos, Blackpool Central - these are the key developments in 2023​

In 2023 there will be no let up in the pace of regeneration in Blackpool as projects - including some previously delayed - are finally completed, while others reach key milestones.

Probably most keenly awaited has been the £23m tramway extension to connect the Promenade with Blackpool North railway station via new track on Talbot Road.

The scheme was due to finish by July 2019 but stalled due to hold ups in other developments including the relocation of the Wilko store.

Now town hall chiefs say it will open in May or June 2023 with the new terminal and underpass linking it to the train station both finished.

Once contractors working on the new Holiday Inn hotel - also due to open in 2023 - leave the site, the trams will start running.
Council leader Coun Lynn Williams said: "Our regeneration programme is an important part of our strategy for the future of the town.

"It will of course bring fabulous new facilities and an improved environment that can be enjoyed by locals and tourists alike, but much more importantly it helps to drive the economy of the town and bring in investment, job opportunities and improved prosperity for the people of Blackpool.
"2023 is gearing up to be an exciting year with a number of key regeneration projects reaching their conclusion.

"The opening of the Holiday Inn and tramway extension will all create new jobs and bring more people into the town centre, boosting trade for other businesses.

"It is also going to be a big year of change at the Houndshill Shopping Centre with the new cinema opening its doors and the former Debenhans store re-opening with new tenants."
The tramway extension fell behind schedule due to the long drawn out process of purchasing and redeveloping the Wilko site.
It is now hoped the hotel will open in time for the 2023 Illuminations season.

Coun Mark Smith, cabinet member for Business, Enterprise and Job Creation, said: “Work at the new Holiday Inn hotel at the Talbot Gateway is progressing well.
“Most of the external façades on the hotel are now complete and work has started on fitting out the bedrooms. We expect the construction work to be complete early summer with the hotel welcoming its first guests for the 2023 Illuminations season.
“The tramway extension is complete and the trams have been successfully tested. The overhead wires have been taken down to enable work to be undertaken at the hotel.”
The scheme is among a number of investments due to be completed in 2023 - while others are set to make progress, some are at the planning stage and still more await government announcements on funding.

The 144 room hotel on Talbot Road has been built as part of a £34m project including a new tram terminal and underpass linking the terminal to North Station.
The hotel, which will include a Marco’s New York Italian restaurant, and create around 70 jobs, is due to open in time for the 2023 Illuminations season, but the tramway extension will open earlier - hopefully late spring or early summer.

The £21m extension includes the Backlot Cinema which will boast an IMAX immersive screen and is due to open early summer.
The Wilko store, which is on the ground floor of the development, is due to open in spring.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Will the new tram stop at Blackpool North railway station offer a reasonable onwards link to Cleveleys and Fleetwood for arriving and departing rail passengers in terms of journey times. I remember arriving at Blackpool North then getting the number 14 bus from outside what was Wilko when needing to visit an elderly relative in the Fleetwood area not far from the North Euston Hotel, to save the walk to North Pier tram stop at that time.

 

[MP33]

I am due to visit Blackpool in the next few weeks. I bet the extension opens just after I have left.

 

[davehsug]

I am due to visit Blackpool in the next few weeks. I bet the extension opens just after I have left.

Yes, I'm there in late May, so expect an early June opening!
And many thanks to Duncanp for his post on progress.

Will the new tram stop at Blackpool North railway station offer a reasonable onwards link to Cleveleys and Fleetwood for arriving and departing rail passengers in terms of journey times. I remember arriving at Blackpool North then getting the number 14 bus from outside what was Wilko when needing to visit an elderly relative in the Fleetwood area not far from the North Euston Hotel, to save the walk to North Pier tram stop at that time.

I think the last we heard about likely routes from North Station was Pleasure Beach & Bispham. There was talk of Starr Gate-Fleetwoods running via North Station, but I think we all agreed that it would make no sense. It would be a shame if local rail passengers from Cleveleys & Fleetwood, as well as tourists could not travel through to Fleetwood from there.

 

[trainmananthon]

The depot rumour (a few weeks before I left) was its due to open the tail end of next year. Rumour was that there was some kind of issue with the way the cladding on the hotel was installed, thus invalidating its warranty and needing to be taken off and redone the correct way.
This would mean that the overhead wires would have to be taken down to get the crane back in to take the cladding down and put it back up again, hence the delay in opening.
They were supposed to be doing driver training up to the station in January in preparation of opening, but that didn't happen and has been postponed.

How true this is I don't know, but that was what was being said before I left the trams for the railway.

 

[davehsug]

I was a little bit shocked to see that the price of the 7 day travel pass has increased from £15.50 to £22.00!
I know times are hard for operators, but that is a massive increase.
Am I correct in thinking that the tram fare is now a flat rate £3.20, regardless of the distance travelled?
I can't imagine that the locals will be happy, especially those who use the tram. A boost for the buses I suppose.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I was a little bit shocked to see that the price of the 7 day travel pass has increased from £15.50 to £22.00!
I know times are hard for operators, but that is a massive increase.
Am I correct in thinking that the tram fare is now a flat rate £3.20, regardless of the distance travelled?
I can't imagine that the locals will be happy, especially those who use the tram. A boost for the buses I suppose.

Yes, they went up four weeks ago.

I also find it shocking that a day pass is £6, yet a 3 day pass is £17.50, thus only a 50p saving!

£22 for 7 days travel I still think is remarkably good value, considering how far you can go on the buses at least (Fleetwood, Lytham, St Annes, Poulton, Preston!).

I also hope that come summer, trams are increased to every 7/8 minutes. Currently they're every 15 minutes and with no buses along the front between Rigby Road and Starr Gate (except for the 21 bus service), that won't work!

 

[davehsug]

Yes, they went up four weeks ago.

I also find it shocking that a day pass is £6, yet a 3 day pass is £17.50, thus only a 50p saving!

£22 for 7 days travel I still think is remarkably good value, considering how far you can go on the buses at least (Fleetwood, Lytham, St Annes, Poulton, Preston!).

I also hope that come summer, trams are increased to every 7/8 minutes. Currently they're every 15 minutes and with no buses along the front between Rigby Road and Starr Gate (except for the 21 bus service), that won't work!

We're going in a couple of weeks, and my OH accientally purchased 2 seven day mobile tickets last August. The spare is still on his account, so he's still getting his pass at the old price! I suspect that the 3 day ticket price is an attempt to make as much money from short-stay visitors as possible?
Actually having just checked on my local First Potteries site, their 7 day tickets are now £21, so clearly I'm out of touch and all operators have massively increased their prices. It used to be £16. Public transport is certainly becoming expensive.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I also hope that come summer, trams are increased to every 7/8 minutes. Currently they're every 15 minutes and with no buses along the front between Rigby Road and Starr Gate (except for the 21 bus service), that won't work!

That would require Blackpool Transport using their modified Ballons on regular services, something they are very averse to for some strange reason. Wheelchair access is their reason, but it's quite a weak reason, as the Flexitys are and disabled passengers can be directed to use them.

Public transport is certainly becoming expensive.

Fuel prices have increased quite a bit and energy prices are being artificially inflated.

 

[trainmananthon]

That would require Blackpool Transport using their modified Ballons on regular services, something they are very averse to for some strange reason. Wheelchair access is their reason, but it's quite a weak reason, as the Flexitys are and disabled passengers can be directed to use them.

Fuel prices have increased quite a bit and energy prices are being artificially inflated.

I did ask the question when I was there about the modified balloons running in passenger service. I think the issue itself may stem from the fact that only 3 - 4 drivers and no conductors at Starr Gate sign them (and there were no plans to have us trained on them due to a severe lack of staff), so they have to pay the heritage volunteers to run the services instead, something Blackpool Transport didn't particularly like the idea of doing.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I did ask the question when I was there about the modified balloons running in passenger service. I think the issue itself may stem from the fact that only 3 - 4 drivers and no conductors at Starr Gate sign them (and there were no plans to have us trained on them due to a severe lack of staff), so they have to pay the heritage volunteers to run the services instead, something Blackpool Transport didn't particularly like the idea of doing.

Then why not get them trained? A 7.5 minute frequency during peak season between Little Bispham and Pleasure Beach would be a godsend, especially on market days when the tram to Fleetwood is absolutely packed.

 

[trainmananthon]

Then why not get them trained? A 7.5 minute frequency during peak season between Little Bispham and Pleasure Beach would be a godsend, especially on market days when the tram to Fleetwood is absolutely packed.

I agree, it would've been great to have a 7 minute Promenade service utilising the extra balloons and would've taken the pressure off the core Flexity service, but like I said there was (perhaps still is?) a major staffing issue that prevented it. They were at least 11 tram drivers short when I left and they couldn't even run a 12 minute service reliably last summer, so there was absolutely no chance they'd spare any of us to go and have a weeks training on the balloon fleet.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Yes, they went up four weeks ago.

I also find it shocking that a day pass is £6, yet a 3 day pass is £17.50, thus only a 50p saving!

£22 for 7 days travel I still think is remarkably good value, considering how far you can go on the buses at least (Fleetwood, Lytham, St Annes, Poulton, Preston!).

I also hope that come summer, trams are increased to every 7/8 minutes. Currently they're every 15 minutes and with no buses along the front between Rigby Road and Starr Gate (except for the 21 bus service), that won't work!

The day pass is no longer 24 hours, now only valid till end of service same day.
7 day is still good value.
No 1 bus now hourly, no early/evening service and no longer serves South Shore.
Not great news for those with a bus pass.
Some trams from Fleetwood can be rammed between 8 - 9am
When the tram line has a breakdown etc., the alternatives are very limited in places.
How many tram drivers can drive buses these days?

 

[davehsug]

The day pass is no longer 24 hours, now only valid till end of service same day.
7 day is still good value.
No 1 bus now hourly, no early/evening service and no longer serves South Shore.
Not great news for those with a bus pass.
Some trams from Fleetwood can be rammed between 8 - 9am
When the tram line has a breakdown etc., the alternatives are very limited in places.
How many tram drivers can drive buses these days?

Strikes me as a very cynical move by BT. Virtually forcing bus pass holders to pay for the tram. I know there's the service run by the independent (I forget the name), but they seem to have gone back to the days when their own buses didn't compete with the tram. The number 1 bus should be at least every 15 minutes during the day. It's one of the reasons that we never visit the Freeport anymore when we're in Blackpool. Just miss one & you're stuck for another hour!

 

[Towers]

I note from reports elsewhere that Centenary car 641 and rail coach 678 have both, sadly, been scrapped.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Strikes me as a very cynical move by BT. Virtually forcing bus pass holders to pay for the tram. I know there's the service run by the independent (I forget the name), but they seem to have gone back to the days when their own buses didn't compete with the tram. The number 1 bus should be at least every 15 minutes during the day. It's one of the reasons that we never visit the Freeport anymore when we're in Blackpool. Just miss one & you're stuck for another hour!

I understand that the Greater Manchester region with ENCTS passes issued by TfGM can, for an annual sum of £10.00 paid in at one of their Traveshopswhich the staff will cause to be entered on the card , allow the holders of those passes to use them on trams and trains in the whole administered TfGM area for a 12-month period.

 

[Bigchris]

I note from reports elsewhere that Centenary car 641 and rail coach 678 have both, sadly, been scrapped.

That's useful to know. From my limited knowledge they were 2 of the trams that were supposed to be stored at Fleetwood docks along with 637, 673, 683 & 710. Could I please ask where you got this information if it's online? I was planning a visit up there in a couple of weeks when I'm in Blackpool so would be very useful to know if there's anything still stored at Fleetwood.
Many thanks, Chris

 

[davehsug]

I note from reports elsewhere that Centenary car 641 and rail coach 678 have both, sadly, been scrapped.

Really sad that nowhere can be found for these vehicles. You just know how much regret there'll be in 20-30 years time, and they'll ask how we could have let it happen.

 

[Bovverboy]

I understand that the Greater Manchester region with ENCTS passes issued by TfGM can, for an annual sum of £10.00 paid in at one of their Traveshopswhich the staff will cause to be entered on the card , allow the holders of those passes to use them on trams and trains in the whole administered TfGM area for a 12-month period.

It's only within the last couple of years or so that the £10 charge has applied, prior to that travel on Metrolink (throughout) and on trains within the TfGM ticketing area was free within the permitted hours (which was pretty well all except for the AM peak M-F). The peak restrictions still apply with the £10 charge.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It's only within the last couple of years or so that the £10 charge has applied, prior to that travel on Metrolink (throughout) and on trains within the TfGM ticketing area was free within the permitted hours (which was pretty well all except for the AM peak M-F). The peak restrictions still apply with the £10 charge.

But if you look objectively, that £10.00 annual charge only equates to a sum of 20p per week.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Blackpool Gazette reporting that the Holiday Inn hotel will not now open until Easter 2024, although the tramway extension 'may open earlier'.

Gazette

Blackpool’s flagship £34m Holiday Inn and tramway regeneration project has stalled once more – with the hotel now unlikely to be welcoming guests until next year. The scheme also includes a tram terminal for the extended tramway between North Pier and North Station, but that also cannot become operational until the hotel construction site is complete. Bookings will start being taken for next year once the sample rooms have been agreed, with the hotel expected to open ahead of Easter 2024.However the tramway terminal could open sooner, once the hotel has been handed over by Muse Developments which is the council’s partner on the Talbot Gateway regeneration project.

 

[Bovverboy]

Will the new tram stop at Blackpool North railway station offer a reasonable onwards link to Cleveleys and Fleetwood for arriving and departing rail passengers in terms of journey times. I remember arriving at Blackpool North then getting the number 14 bus from outside what was Wilko when needing to visit an elderly relative in the Fleetwood area not far from the North Euston Hotel, to save the walk to North Pier tram stop at that time.

A year or two ago I attended Non-tram Sunday at Fleetwood and worked out that if I alighted the train at Layton rather than continuing to Blackpool North I could catch the previous 14 bus, which I managed, easily. Only one train an hour each way calls at Layton on a Sunday (and, for most of the day, on Mondays to Saturdays, too), but that train happened to be the one I had been intending to catch anyway.
Another worthwhile possibility for getting to Fleetwood/Cleveleys is to transfer from the train at Poulton to Blackpool Transport's service 74 (Fleetwood) or 75 (Cleveleys). Both services are hourly, the 75 continuing from Cleveleys to Fleetwood but taking a quarter-hour longer than the 74. If I've read the map correctly that probably necessitates, on the return journey, a walk to Poulton Station from St Chad's Church, but that's no great distance, and certainly no greater than the connection distance at Layton. A point in favour of using bus over tram is that if you've an ENCTS pass, the bus comes free, the tram doesn't, and the tram isn't going to offer any time advantage over either of the bus options.

 

[bluegoblin7]

Really sad that nowhere can be found for these vehicles. You just know how much regret there'll be in 20-30 years time, and they'll ask how we could have let it happen.

Not really. It was never viable to preserve every vehicle and the writing has been on the wall for the Fleetwood vehicles for many years now. A number of spare parts have been salvaged which will benefit other, more important, vehicles in the long run, including various components from the unique (to Blackpool) chopper system from 641 for Jubilee 762 at Crich, a handbrake column from 678 for Brush 298, also at Crich, and hopper window units from 641 for OMO 5, in store at Clay Cross. Arguably all of these are more worthy causes than vehicles which are otherwise duplicated in the operational fleet at Blackpool. It should be noted that, in particular, 678 had severe structural issues before it even left Blackpool, and was withdrawn long before the tramway was modernised.

 

[Towers]

That's useful to know. From my limited knowledge they were 2 of the trams that were supposed to be stored at Fleetwood docks along with 637, 673, 683 & 710. Could I please ask where you got this information if it's online? I was planning a visit up there in a couple of weeks when I'm in Blackpool so would be very useful to know if there's anything still stored at Fleetwood.
Many thanks, Chris

It appeared in an Insta post initially, then some Googling! Plenty of info on Flickr, including a rather sad image of a pile of what used to be 678.

Really sad that nowhere can be found for these vehicles. You just know how much regret there'll be in 20-30 years time, and they'll ask how we could have let it happen.

To be fair I think the heritage Blackpool fleet has overall survived incredibly well, very few have actually been scrapped so far although there are a few ‘at risk’. As bluegoblin has said, they can’t all be saved and argubly initial expectations might have been that a lot more would have disappeared by now. I think we’re doing okay!

 

[davehsug]

Not really. It was never viable to preserve every vehicle and the writing has been on the wall for the Fleetwood vehicles for many years now. A number of spare parts have been salvaged which will benefit other, more important, vehicles in the long run, including various components from the unique (to Blackpool) chopper system from 641 for Jubilee 762 at Crich, a handbrake column from 678 for Brush 298, also at Crich, and hopper window units from 641 for OMO 5, in store at Clay Cross. Arguably all of these are more worthy causes than vehicles which are otherwise duplicated in the operational fleet at Blackpool. It should be noted that, in particular, 678 had severe structural issues before it even left Blackpool, and was withdrawn long before the tramway was modernised.

Of course I accept that, but I mourn the passing of every tram. Just about every vehicle in the fleet was unique in some way. I'm just getting old and nostalgic!

 

[Towers]

Of course I accept that, but I mourn the passing of every tram. Just about every vehicle in the fleet was unique in some way. I'm just getting old and nostalgic!

I don’t disagree, they were certainly pretty special machines! But there’s some comfort in the fact that they provided much needed parts to ensure the continued existence of other survivors

 

[philthetube]

A year or two ago I attended Non-tram Sunday at Fleetwood and worked out that if I alighted the train at Layton rather than continuing to Blackpool North I could catch the previous 14 bus, which I managed, easily. Only one train an hour each way calls at Layton on a Sunday (and, for most of the day, on Mondays to Saturdays, too), but that train happened to be the one I had been intending to catch anyway.
Another worthwhile possibility for getting to Fleetwood/Cleveleys is to transfer from the train at Poulton to Blackpool Transport's service 74 (Fleetwood) or 75 (Cleveleys). Both services are hourly, the 75 continuing from Cleveleys to Fleetwood but taking a quarter-hour longer than the 74. If I've read the map correctly that probably necessitates, on the return journey, a walk to Poulton Station from St Chad's Church, but that's no great distance, and certainly no greater than the connection distance at Layton. A point in favour of using bus over tram is that if you've an ENCTS pass, the bus comes free, the tram doesn't, and the tram isn't going to offer any time advantage over either of the bus options.

Also Transpora service 24, direct Poulton to Cleveleys and Fleetwood, a bit slower though.

 

[davehsug]

Just back from a few days in Blackpool and I have to say that the 15 minute service is inadequate. Most trams are running full with many standing all day. 707 from the reserve fleet was running on Sunday, seemed to be Pleasure Beach-Tower. There was a driver training tram running every day, so at last they're trying to get more drivers. There was a gap of over 30 minutes at South Pier on Wednesday Northbound after 10am. I let the 1st tram go as it was already standing only, with the next a couple of minutes behind, with seats. The crew were saying that it was a new driver on the tram in front, running late, we crawled behind it to Fleetwood. It was eventually turned at Ash Street, with the remaining passengers transferring to our tram, it was already over 30 minutes late for the Ferry departure and obviously we were over 20 minutes late arriving at the ferry.
Noticeable that most people were using day passes, and guards were selling them to most passengers who would be returning.
I dread to think how the service will cope during illuminations weekends, yes it was quite busy, but nothing compared to weekends in September & October, there should be a 10 minute frequency at worst, especially nowt hat the number 1 bus is all but gone.
How on earth will they run the North Station service....if it ever actually starts!