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CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

Western 52

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A 6 car 197 is running empty this morning from Cardiff to Carmarthen. Maybe a proving run for 6 car west of Swansea?
 
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Jez

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Think this is some more enthusiast bias, most people won’t even know and even more won’t care.

Anyway, the franchise might be ‘wales and borders’ but the company is quite literally called, transport for … Wales.
TFW is a brand name though is it not? The franchise covers Wales and Borders and some routes in England, Hereford to Crewe for one, TFW is the only TOC on this route.

A 6 car 197 is running empty this morning from Cardiff to Carmarthen. Maybe a proving run for 6 car west of Swansea?
Interesting. Could explain why so many Sprinters on passenger services covering for 197s today.
 

Lurcheroo

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TFW is a brand name though is it not? The franchise covers Wales and Borders and some routes in England, Hereford to Crewe for one, TFW is the only TOC on this route.
You’ve pretty much just repeated what I said.

Yes it’s a brand name, run by the Welsh Gov, naming its train Welsh related things, as they’re trying to promote wales, not sure what else is to be expected really. They’ve got plenty to name so they may well name some related to England yet.

But again, the vast majority of the travelling public, Welsh or English, won’t know and won’t care about it, so I think the statement “That'll go down well on TfW's English routes” is a bit far fetched and quite an over-reaction considering a number are already named after things such as Welsh castles.
 

Caaardiff

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Have these theoretically also replaced other types? 170s etc?
It's all part of the long term plan of fleet commonality, but it's still a way off in the distance. There's still a lot of shuffling of the fleet.

197's have replaced 2x 150's on Bidston & 1x 150 on Blaenau, 2x pairs of 153's on Chester - Liverpool and 1x pair of 153's Chester - Crewe as well as some 15x services in West Wales.
So although with now 47 197's in service, they have replaced around 45 units across the network - 27 175's, 12 170s and 6 15x listed above as well as some in West Wales, which i'm not entirely sure how many units that makes up.

So it's a much broader and slightly more complex fleet movement plan, as the 15x fleet is used to bolster Valleys services, as well as the introduction of Newport - Ebbw Vale.
Cardiff - Ebbw Vale is 3 units
Newport - Ebbw Vale is 2 units.
Maesteg - Cheltenham is 5 units.

So 10 units will be freed up when the 231's eventually move over from Valleys services once the 398 Trams are in service. Currently I think 4 of those 10 are 150's, with the remaining 6 197's.

There's now 17 3 cars in services, vs the 16 175's. With the remaining 3 cars due there should now start being a noticeable difference in capacity in certain routes before the whole fleet is in place where there's be more 4-5 car services. Things are certainly heading in the right direction.
 

Lurcheroo

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It's all part of the long term plan of fleet commonality, but it's still a way off in the distance. There's still a lot of shuffling of the fleet.

197's have replaced 2x 150's on Bidston & 1x 150 on Blaenau, 2x pairs of 153's on Chester - Liverpool and 1x pair of 153's Chester - Crewe as well as some 15x services in West Wales.
So although with now 47 197's in service, they have replaced around 45 units across the network - 27 175's, 12 170s and 6 15x listed above as well as some in West Wales, which i'm not entirely sure how many units that makes up.

So it's a much broader and slightly more complex fleet movement plan, as the 15x fleet is used to bolster Valleys services, as well as the introduction of Newport - Ebbw Vale.
Cardiff - Ebbw Vale is 3 units
Newport - Ebbw Vale is 2 units.
Maesteg - Cheltenham is 5 units.

So 10 units will be freed up when the 231's eventually move over from Valleys services once the 398 Trams are in service. Currently I think 4 of those 10 are 150's, with the remaining 6 197's.

There's now 17 3 cars in services, vs the 16 175's. With the remaining 3 cars due there should now start being a noticeable difference in capacity in certain routes before the whole fleet is in place where there's be more 4-5 car services. Things are certainly heading in the right direction.
Great analysis.
Nice to see things put into numbers sometimes.
Hopefully with the 5car MK4 program drawing near an end, and their reliability (generally) improving, which will help to keep 197’s free, plus some
More units to come into service, things will get a bit better again.

It’s been an incredibly long road with a long way still to go yet, but nice to see the progress as you summed it nicely. Cheers
 

Jez

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Anyone know what's happened to 197120? Swapped for a pair of 153s at Cardiff to go onwards to Manchester. Was there a fault with it?
 

craigybagel

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Interesting. Could explain why so many Sprinters on passenger services covering for 197s today.
It's a Sunday - there's always booked to be more Sprinters out on the Marches. It was the same in 175 days.

Anyone know what's happened to 197120? Swapped for a pair of 153s at Cardiff to go onwards to Manchester. Was there a fault with it?
It's been running round on 2 engines for several days - might be related to that?
 

BillStampy

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Anyone know what's happened to 197120? Swapped for a pair of 153s at Cardiff to go onwards to Manchester. Was there a fault with it?
Swapping onto 1W90 to Chester, supposedly for fixing at Chester depot.


I find this unlikely to operate as a double 197, seems a little odd if it ends up on Maestegs tomorrow. Also may explain the shortage of then on the Marches..
 

Jez

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It's a Sunday - there's always booked to be more Sprinters out on the Marches. It was the same in 175 days.


It's been running round on 2 engines for several days - might be related to that?
Thanks. THat probably explains why it was switched to a Cardiff to Chester service to get back to depot.

And yes always a few sprinters on Sunday but today does seem more than usual with 4 consecutive journeys Cardiff to Manchester formed of various combinations of 153s
 

Nick Ashwell

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Swapping onto 1W90 to Chester, supposedly for fixing at Chester depot.


I find this unlikely to operate as a double 197, seems a little odd if it ends up on Maestegs tomorrow. Also may explain the shortage of then on the Marches..
A two car is definitely enough on the morning service, yet alone four, you may want three beyond Cardiff in the morning though as that leg seems busier (I sometimes take it through depending on which office I'm in).

I wonder if it'll split after one run through and a single two car will run on for the night.

Can the bay at Gloucester take a 4 car train?
 

sd0733

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And yes always a few sprinters on Sunday but today does seem more than usual with 4 consecutive journeys Cardiff to Manchester formed of various combinations of 15153sm
There's a bit of a block in the mid afternoon from Manchester booked 153s. Just happened that the Mk4 and 197 diagram either side of that were both pairs of 153s too, looks like 9 different 153s made it to Manchester within 3 hours.

For the first time I've ever known on a Sunday there's not 1 single 150 booked to Manchester today. Even a couple of weeks ago there were numerous 150s on a Sunday on the Manchesters.

Bringing it back to topic on 197s, almost all the Manchesters seem to have run as booked today, there's 2 shortformed (one 2 instead of 3 and a 3 car instead of 4) and one as a pair of 153s but the others are all diagrammed.
 

Delta558

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Topological

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Today's Manchester to Cardiff is looking better, not that many 2-car and only one service which is not a 197 or Mk4 (currently showing 19:30 as a 158) and one service (17:30) with nothing allocated. The still not officially a Mk4 10:30 then 18:30 diagram is a 2-car, so hopefully that will be swapped to a 3 for the 18:30 like it was on Friday.

With a 197 needed to cover for the 06:27 Mk4 diagram that means the 197s are doing OK today.

Still a long way short of where it is supposed to be, but not the worst day.
 

SeaKing

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Jez

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Today's Manchester to Cardiff is looking better, not that many 2-car and only one service which is not a 197 or Mk4 (currently showing 19:30 as a 158) and one service (17:30) with nothing allocated. The still not officially a Mk4 10:30 then 18:30 diagram is a 2-car, so hopefully that will be swapped to a 3 for the 18:30 like it was on Friday.

With a 197 needed to cover for the 06:27 Mk4 diagram that means the 197s are doing OK today.

Still a long way short of where it is supposed to be, but not the worst day.
It looks like the 1830 has been allocated a 3 car and the 1730 a 2 car.

The 1630 which should be a MK4 is showing as a 158 Manchester to Cardiff and then a pair of 153s Cardiff-Swansea.

There seem to be a few 158s about today, one doing the 15xx Milford to Manchester but swapped for a 197 at Cardiff.

Goes to show how much changes during the course of the day like the 1830 being upgraded to a 3 car since this morning's allocation of 2 cars. But overall a much better day today.
 

Western 52

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Tomorrow's 1W22 1305 Milford Haven to Manchester is showing as a 5 car 197 from Milford then 7 from Cardiff. Presumably that won't happen?
 

craigybagel

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From the 175 speculation thread, figured it was more appropriate to reply here
Talerddig certainly presents some challenges, summer you can struggle with overheating, autumn not only is it very steep but it’s well known for low adhesion due to all the foliage about.
Further to that, if you travelling up Tallerddig bank (to Shrewsbury) there’s a block marker about 3/4 of the way up and if that’s closed and you have to stop there when it’s slippy, it’s incredibly difficult to get going again.
Line speed is 95 KMH (about 60mph) and even in notch 7 you will see the that the speed is still coming off ever so slightly (which I suspect is part of the reason they may overheat during summer, having to be flat out on power going up).
I’ve seen the 97’s also overheat and get stuck going up there pulling the logs.
I’m told the 197’s absolutely fly up there and your shutting off power so may very well see the end of the problem for passenger trains.
It's been a lot of fun with the 197s reaching the kind of speeds I never would have thought possible going uphill. They're quick to accelerate in general, but it's especially noticeable on hill climbs how much better they perform than the old fleet. There are places where the line speeds were irrelevant as even a 175 couldn't possibly hit them, but now in a 197 we need to be mindful to avoid speeding.

I don't sign Tallerdig but it sounds to be a similar degree of climb to Gresford bank between Chester and Wrexham. 60mph line speed. A 175 at full power would just about manage to hold it it, a 158 will be doing about 56 at the top in notch 7, and in a 197 you need to ease off to avoid speeding.
 

Lurcheroo

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From the 175 speculation thread, figured it was more appropriate to reply here

It's been a lot of fun with the 197s reaching the kind of speeds I never would have thought possible going uphill. They're quick to accelerate in general, but it's especially noticeable on hill climbs how much better they perform than the old fleet. There are places where the line speeds were irrelevant as even a 175 couldn't possibly hit them, but now in a 197 we need to be mindful to avoid speeding.

I don't sign Tallerdig but it sounds to be a similar degree of climb to Gresford bank between Chester and Wrexham. 60mph line speed. A 175 at full power would just about manage to hold it it, a 158 will be doing about 56 at the top in notch 7, and in a 197 you need to ease off to avoid speeding.
Yeah seems more appropriate here.

That sounds great to be fair, can’t wait for them to come to the Cambrian haha!

Yeah that sounds pretty much exactly like Tallerddig! One of the guys who tested the 197’s said you have to shut off a lot more with them on the hills.
 

Jez

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1030 Carmarthen-Manchester cancelled between Carmarthen and Cardiff due to a door fault. Was this supposed to be a 197 and does anyone know which unit has the fault? Thanks.

RTT doesnt show which unit (assume something spare at Canton?) is taking over from Cardiff either.
 

sd0733

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1030 Carmarthen-Manchester cancelled between Carmarthen and Cardiff due to a door fault. Was this supposed to be a 197 and does anyone know which unit has the fault? Thanks.

RTT doesnt show which unit (assume something spare at Canton?) is taking over from Cardiff either.
Showing as 197118. The newer 3 cars seem the worst of the bunch!
 

Anonymous10

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Thanks. I assume it will need to get back to Chester to repair? Or if its minor can things be done at Canton?
One hopes it could be fixed with someone plugging in a laptop and giving it a technical shove (I know its not so simple)
 

Jez

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One hopes it could be fixed with someone plugging in a laptop and giving it a technical shove (I know its not so simple)
You would hope so. But ive no idea whether a door fault could be sorted that easily or would need a maintenance depot. And if so Canton which is closer or the proper CAF depot. I suppose it depends what type of fault it is.
 

sd0733

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Yes just seen its updated on RTT.

Saw a 3 car 197 (wasnt close enough to see number but assume 197118) going empty towards Cardiff direction.
118 did get sent empty to Canton.

It depends what the fault is, Canton can do certain things with them but for major faults they'll have to go to Chester.
 

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