Class 309 up for disposal

[M28361M]

Clacton Express Group posted this update on their facebook page yesterday:-

Good day to all of our supporters. Unfortunately, we are tasked with delivering the news that I'm sure no supporter of this project wanted to hear.

Despite many months of positive detailed discussions and proposals to multiple heritage groups, unfortunately all of our proposals have been unsuccessful. Our storage contract with the Lavender line ends today, and no new agreement has been able to be reached. This now means we have no choice but to start the process of removing the vehicles from site and to dispose of the vehicles.

This is sad news for everyone involved, after a huge amount of time and effort has gone into the restoration of these vehicles, to make them airtight, and to now have them almost operational. The brake pipes were sealed 3 weeks ago and are ready for testing, making it a viable push pull 3 car unit.

All of the work this year to secure a new home behind the scenes has happened alongside our benefactor, who despite giving his notice to step away back in January, has remained by our side and supportive till the very end. We have all been incredibly committed to seeing these vehicles survive and have explored every option available to us.

As a last resort, Our benefactor has now agreed to very generously offer the vehicles as free to any good home. This can include non-railway sites, with the only condition being the continued upkeep with a conservation agreement placed on the vehicles.

If no interest is shown within a month, Disposal will unfortunately be guaranteed.

This is certainly not how we want the year or the group to end, so we are urging anyone reading this, if you can give this unit a home, or know someone who could, now is the time to act. Whether it be preserved on a private station site, Converted to a cafe / community space, or another solution, please send an email to discuss. It is now or never to help secure one of very few complete examples of an AC EMU left in the UK.

A very sad situation, especially as the group by all accounts seem to have worked very hard to preserve and commence restoration work on the unit. I think they were working on it up until quite recently, despite the uncertainty.

Another indication of how tough things can be in the world of EMU preservation.

 

[m79900]

That is incredibly sad. This unit is well deserving of preservation, but unfortunately I doubt it’ll be saved. Fingers crossed!

 

[Andy317345]

A big shame. Is there any chance it can find a home?

 

[johnny_t]

I know it isn't the Flying Scotsman, but surely these have enough historic merit that the NRM should step in and preserve at least one end.

 

[JonathanH]

I know it isn't the Flying Scotsman, but surely these have enough historic merit that the NRM should step in and preserve at least one end.

There is another 309 dormant at the Tanat Valley Railway.

 

[12C]

It would be a shame if this did go for disposal given the efforts of the group who have been looking after it. Even if it never moved under it’s own power again, could it not be useful as an air braked coaching stock set for a preserved line? It’s not like there’s going to be many more mk1 coaches in half decent condition available any time soon.

 

[JonathanH]

Even if it never moved under it’s own power again, could it not be useful as an air braked coaching stock set for a preserved line?

Very few preserved railways seem to want an air braked coaching stock set, despite the nonsense that is brake translation using a dual braked locomotive when visiting air braked locomotives are used.

 

[12C]

Very few preserved railways seem to want an air braked coaching stock set, despite the nonsense that is brake translation using a dual braked locomotive when visiting air braked locomotives are used.

That’s what I was thinking, and I know a few lines have had to hire in an air braked rake for diesel galas or polar express type events which is no doubt costly.

Some of the more fledgling operations which are currently dependent on pacers might also find it useful for extra capacity for events etc, even if it was just towed about with a shunter. The Weardale for an example (I noticed last year they had to run their Santa event with a bubble car which obviously limits capacity).

Fingers crossed they can find a home for it before it’s too late.

 

[43096]

That’s what I was thinking, and I know a few lines have had to hire in an air braked rake for diesel galas or polar express type events which is no doubt costly.

If you use it for Polar Express type activities, how are you heating it? It’s not got ETH jumpers/standard BR train supply.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Very few preserved railways seem to want an air braked coaching stock set, despite the nonsense that is brake translation using a dual braked locomotive when visiting air braked locomotives are used.

This is true for many EMUs. They would make excellent hauled vehicles,but unfortunately unable to be run with (most) steam locos hence they linger in sidings.

 

[A0wen]

Very few preserved railways seem to want an air braked coaching stock set, despite the nonsense that is brake translation using a dual braked locomotive when visiting air braked locomotives are used.

That’s what I was thinking, and I know a few lines have had to hire in an air braked rake for diesel galas or polar express type events which is no doubt costly.

But there's also a cost to having a rake of air braked coaches sitting in a siding doing nothing for ~360 days a year - it takes up siding space which can often be at a premium, the stock needs to be maintained, both internally and externally in good working condition and that takes resource from volunteers which are usually in short supply as well, there's the risk of vandalism (the EMU which was at the GCR being a prime example) and unless people are available and have the resource to maintain and repair such damage it just deteriorates.

If the only need a line has for air-braked stock is 4 days of a diesel gala, then for a rail connected line like the Severn Valley, Bluebell, Nene Valley and many others, then in probability it's both cheaper and more operationally convenient to just hire in a set for the weekend which then leaves at the end of the gala.

Whilst the enthusiasts may not appreciate the reasons why the heritage railways haven't clamoured to preserve EMUs, there are pretty good reasons why most have given them a wide berth.

 

[D365]

Very few preserved railways seem to want an air braked coaching stock set, despite the nonsense that is brake translation using a dual braked locomotive when visiting air braked locomotives are used.

How much vacuum braking expertise do we have left in the country?

 

[david1212]

Very few preserved railways seem to want an air braked coaching stock set, despite the nonsense that is brake translation using a dual braked locomotive when visiting air braked locomotives are used.

This is true for many EMUs. They would make excellent hauled vehicles,but unfortunately unable to be run with (most) steam locos hence they linger in sidings.

Even if compatibility was not a major issue a diesel hauled EMU is not widely representative of how rail operated in the 1960's and 70's never mind steam haulage. For enthusiasts while some will appreciate travelling in an EMU however propelled others only want what is prototypical. For more general visitors again some will not notice or care but others too will notice the stock is an EMU rather than MK1's or other carriages.

 

[12C]

Even if compatibility was not a major issue a diesel hauled EMU is not widely representative of how rail operated in the 1960's and 70's never mind steam haulage. For enthusiasts while some will appreciate travelling in an EMU however propelled others only want what is prototypical. For more general visitors again some will not notice or care but others too will notice the stock is an EMU rather than MK1's or other carriages.

I don’t think much of the public, even with a little bit of railway knowledge would really know the difference between the 309 and Mk1 stock, especially if it was painted in the original maroon livery. The experience of travelling in it probably would bring back memories for a few folk with comfortable seats all around tables and first class compartments.

For those in the know, to be able to travel on it, even if diesel hauled, would be a fairly unique experience and it would probably attract visitors. My local line, the Eden Valley Railway sometimes operates its 4 CEP set with a MLV and I’ve often spoken to people who have made a point of going there especially on those particular weekends to have a trip on it.

 

[1Q18]

Very few preserved railways seem to want an air braked coaching stock set, despite the nonsense that is brake translation using a dual braked locomotive when visiting air braked locomotives are used.

It’s a big ask, especially these days, for a heritage railway to find the human and financial resources to maintain a three car set of carriages just to avoid having to use a translator loco at the annual diesel gala.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The ideal home would be somewhere close to their old stomping grounds, though the East Anglia Rail Museum are short of both space and cash. No preserved lines in South Manchester either, and if there was they wouldn't necessarily have the money or space. It'll be a real shame to see the unit go, but if there isn't a way of making it pay there's no option. Perhaps the resources that went to saving a boring (IMO) 315 would have been better off saving this one. If your visit to a heritage line is going to involve a dragged EMU, a 309 would be a bit nicer than a plasticky PEP!

 

[12LDA28C]

How much vacuum braking expertise do we have left in the country?

Plenty, both on preserved railways and at least two main line charter TOCs.

 

[43096]

The ideal home would be somewhere close to their old stomping grounds, though the East Anglia Rail Museum are short of both space and cash. No preserved lines in South Manchester either, and if there was they wouldn't necessarily have the money or space. It'll be a real shame to see the unit go, but if there isn't a way of making it pay there's no option.

Preservation doesn't pay. It's a constant outflow of funds.

Perhaps the resources that went to saving a boring (IMO) 315 would have been better off saving this one. If your visit to a heritage line is going to involve a dragged EMU, a 309 would be a bit nicer than a plasticky PEP!

It's much easier dragging a 309 round than a 315 - it's got buffers and a drawhook for starters.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The ideal home would be somewhere close to their old stomping grounds, though the East Anglia Rail Museum are short of both space and cash. No preserved lines in South Manchester either, and if there was they wouldn't necessarily have the money or space.

What about Mangapp's Farm...?

 

[Class15]

Any updates on 309624?

 

[Andy317345]

Not that I know of, getting worrying now that they still haven't found a home yet (as far as I know) and it's been almost a month...

 

[aem7ac]

It's been over a month. Disposal it is, I guess?

 

[StephenHunter]

It's been over a month. Disposal it is, I guess?

No news at all on the group.

 

[JKF]

Have they tried Sellinge? That’s not too far away and houses a few projects like the 4-DD EMU, likely has some space.

 

[Alanko]

I imagine all these brilliant suggestions have already been explored.

This seems a fairly clear case of preservation as nothing more than delayed scrappage. The unit had a temporary home on the Lavender line and a few bits and pieces of work were done on it, but it doesn't look like there was any serious plan in place for restoring it.

 

[Ianigsy]

It’s not as if East Anglia is exactly short of preservation sites.

I imagine all these brilliant suggestions have already been explored.

This seems a fairly clear case of preservation as nothing more than delayed scrappage. The unit had a temporary home on the Lavender line and a few bits and pieces of work were done on it, but it doesn't look like there was any serious plan in place for restoring it.

You could probably say the same for the Lavender Line itself. As far as I can see, they’ve got one pretty station at Isfield, a couple of DEMUs and a mostly industrial fleet of locos and about a mile and a half of track which can’t easily be extended north or south.

 

[1Q18]

You could probably say the same for the Lavender Line itself. As far as I can see, they’ve got one pretty station at Isfield, a couple of DEMUs and a mostly industrial fleet of locos and about a mile and a half of track which can’t easily be extended north or south.

Not every heritage railway needs to be the North Yorkshire Moors or the Severn Valley. Just because a line is on a smaller scale doesn’t mean it’s somehow not viable or not worth bothering with.

 

[Alanko]

It’s not as if East Anglia is exactly short of preservation sites.


You could probably say the same for the Lavender Line itself. As far as I can see, they’ve got one pretty station at Isfield, a couple of DEMUs and a mostly industrial fleet of locos and about a mile and a half of track which can’t easily be extended north or south.

They don't appear to be in a brilliant position, financially, per Total exemption full accounts made up to 31 January 2023

 

[Towers]

Not every heritage railway needs to be the North Yorkshire Moors or the Severn Valley. Just because a line is on a smaller scale doesn’t mean it’s somehow not viable or not worth bothering with.

It does need to home some level of wider appeal though beyond being a volunteer group plaything. That isn’t aimed at the Lavender especially, I’ve never been, but just a general observation.

 

[1Q18]

It does need to home some level of wider appeal though beyond being a volunteer group plaything. That isn’t aimed at the Lavender especially, I’ve never been, but just a general observation.

Granted, I never said anything to the contrary. I was also not talking specifically about the Lavender Line.