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Class 730 LNR & WMR Delivery/test Updates

JW4

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Joined
14 Feb 2023
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274
Location
Birmingham
Siri, show me someone who's never tried to get a 3 car 323 out of New Street at 6pm on a weekday...
I opted to miss the 18:16 and 18:36 yesterday and take the 18:46 off New Street instead. Being stood up nose to nose on a crowded 323 is a bad experience and I couldn’t get to any of the seats I would have wanted to because some passengers would indeed rather stand than use the middle seat of a set of 3 in the 3+2 sections.

On match and event days there has been no option, especially on Sundays with half-hourly frequencies on the Cross-City and hourly on Wolves-Walsall.

Both of those routes are going to be 730 operated.

It's 008 and 009 again today
Can confirm
 

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Cross City

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15 Apr 2024
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Birmingham
Fair play. As someone who uses 378s daily l would say that they do a very good job.
I particularly enjoy the London Overground.

I’d be interested to see stats for people who go beyond New Street to stations on the other side of the Cross City, I reckon it’d be sub 10%.

Bromsgrove and Lichfield are around 30 minutes from New Street but I guess most people will only be on these trains for 5-20 minutes. I think lateral seating would’ve been a good choice, but what do I know‽
 

DaveyJones

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12 Mar 2023
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UK
I particularly enjoy the London Overground.

I’d be interested to see stats for people who go beyond New Street to stations on the other side of the Cross City, I reckon it’d be sub 10%.

Bromsgrove and Lichfield are around 30 minutes from New Street but I guess most people will only be on these trains for 5-20 minutes. I think lateral seating would’ve been a good choice, but what do I know‽
I think the problem is more the marketing than the train itself, I travelled back on the pair this afternoon and it was fine.

Pre-Covid these new trains were 'sold' as more seats, and a significant capacity increase. The 'additional seats' were based on a 6 Car, 6 TPH timetable, which doesn't seem to be on the horizon.
 

Wolfie

Established Member
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17 Aug 2010
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6,179
I particularly enjoy the London Overground.

I’d be interested to see stats for people who go beyond New Street to stations on the other side of the Cross City, I reckon it’d be sub 10%.

Bromsgrove and Lichfield are around 30 minutes from New Street but I guess most people will only be on these trains for 5-20 minutes. I think lateral seating would’ve been a good choice, but what do I know‽
I was last a regular user of the Cross City line when l was a post-grad at Brum Uni in the mid-80s. The rolling stock then was clapped out first generation DMUs, many of which still had line diagrams for BEDPAN.
 

AJDesiro

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10 May 2019
Messages
648
Location
Rugby
I particularly enjoy the London Overground.

I’d be interested to see stats for people who go beyond New Street to stations on the other side of the Cross City, I reckon it’d be sub 10%.

Bromsgrove and Lichfield are around 30 minutes from New Street but I guess most people will only be on these trains for 5-20 minutes. I think lateral seating would’ve been a good choice, but what do I know‽
The issue is that the fleet is being used on other lines too, and, even if they had longitudinal and latitudinal variants of the 3 car 730s, we all know how good WMT are at diagramming (pretty much) technically identical units with different interiors (see 350/2s running Euston-Crewe and Birmingham-Liverpool, some of the longest services they operate).

Longitudinal (I assume that’s what you meant) seating wouldn’t be suitable on the chase line, where there’s a fair few people who travel the whole length of the line - crazy to think this line has seen 153s, 170s, 323s, 350s and soon 730s in the space of 5 years!
 

sharpley

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Joined
18 Aug 2018
Messages
244
A 730 has just left Old Dalby, 730016 has just gone passed me heading into Melton Mowbray to reverse back west, dragged by a 37.
 

JW4

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TheTallOne

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2 Jan 2024
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Birmingham
I think the problem is more the marketing than the train itself, I travelled back on the pair this afternoon and it was fine.

Pre-Covid these new trains were 'sold' as more seats, and a significant capacity increase. The 'additional seats' were based on a 6 Car, 6 TPH timetable, which doesn't seem to be on the horizon.
I thought that might change with camp hill services? Parts of the cross city line would become 6+ trains per hour?
 

Kite159

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27 Jan 2014
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West of Andover
I thought that might change with camp hill services? Parts of the cross city line would become 6+ trains per hour?
Only part of the Cross City which will be 6 trains an hour will be Kings Norton to Birmingham New Street once the Camp Hill line DMU service starts running
 

TheTallOne

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2 Jan 2024
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63
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Birmingham
Only part of the Cross City which will be 6 trains an hour will be Kings Norton to Birmingham New Street once the Camp Hill line DMU service starts running
Should still make a difference though. Spread some of the load across more trains, e.g. people doing Selly Oak to Birmingham, Selly Oak to university, New Street to University etc.
 

Cross City

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15 Apr 2024
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Birmingham
Only part of the Cross City which will be 6 trains an hour will be Kings Norton to Birmingham New Street once the Camp Hill line DMU service starts running

Should still make a difference though. Spread some of the load across more trains, e.g. people doing Selly Oak to Birmingham, Selly Oak to university, New Street to University etc.

Ironically Kings Norton is the second quietest station on the Cross City South between New St and Longbridge.

They need to extend the Camp Hill trains to Longbridge ASAP really.
 

Wyrleybart

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29 Mar 2020
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South Staffordshire
I thought that might change with camp hill services? Parts of the cross city line would become 6+ trains per hour?
Surely they will be mostly a new clientele though, unless pax are travelling end to end between New St and Kings Norton and vv ? None of the Camp Hill lines stops replace existing journeys
 

jhy44

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Joined
7 Aug 2008
Messages
187
Location
Bromsgrove (Worcestershire)
Given the extent to which 3+2 seating was used on London commuter services which have always been way busier than anything in Brum or Manchester l must disagree with your comments in that respect.

If one takes your argument to it's logical conclusion then WMR should have bought 710s with longitudinal seating.

Siri, show me someone who's never tried to get a 3 car 323 out of New Street at 6pm on a weekday...

Literally. I for many years (until 7 months ago) commuted almost daily between Victoria and Clapham Junction in rush hour. A Southern unit with 3+2 seating would often turn up. Not once, in either direction, was that train ever at 100% capacity inside and leaving passengers standing on the platform unable to board, and I was boarding at the final & busiest section at that too. Admittedly I've only used the CrossCity line thrice since moving back to Bromsgrove due to the post-covid reduced frequencies and unreliability due to strike action I now always drive as default, but on every occasion there have been poor passengers who try and board at Five Ways around 17:30/18:00 who cannot, as the train is 100% capacity people falling out as the doors open, and are thus left on the platform facing a potential 22-minute gap until the next service.

3+2 seating is perfectly sufficient for the Southern units which are not overcrowded and do not need more standing room.
3+2 seating is not sufficient for the WMR CrossCity line units which are very much overcrowded and need more standing room.

As for the '710 longitudinal seating', again, no, that is not the logical conclusion by any means, otherwise WMR would have put it in.
Suitable seating layout and seats to standing room ratio is dictated by the balance of passenger levels, crowding, and average journey length.
The London Overground has very high passenger levels, high crowding, and short passenger journeys. That matrix makes it effectively a tube service meaning longitudinal seating is the most appropriate. If one looks at a line like the Elizabeth Line or the Metropolitan Line, we see the matrix change slightly with a greater proportion of longer journey lengths being made, but still plenty of short journeys being made in the central core, hence the switch to having a mix of normal and longitudinal seating.

2+2 seating with wide door spaces, as is the norm on most suburban London metro lines like Thameslink, and the inner-suburban SWR and SouthEastern routes, is the most appropriate for the CrossCity line; as the experts who designed the specification for these trains know very well.
 
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Liam L

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19 Jun 2020
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942
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Birmingham
Any ideas what the diagrams are looking like for 730s on the cross city tomorrow? Id presume they would only be on New Street - Bromsgrove runs if they were to run?
 

AJDesiro

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10 May 2019
Messages
648
Location
Rugby
Spotted a 730 running the Chase Line today, which surprised me as I didn't think they were cleared to run to Rugeley. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C73264/2024-04-20/detailed
They're cleared, I wouldn't imagine it was that service, they're being used for training at the moment. In a few months, they should also be in passenger service down the chase line, displacing 350s to other routes.

Was it not this one?
 

Russel

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30 Jun 2022
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1,181
Location
Lichfield
I had a ride on 730009 and 730008 between New Street and Lichfield City today, I noticed some of the platforms are too short for the trains, Aston and Lichfield City are two I heard announcements about, not sure how man other stations are effected.

Is there a plan to extend the platforms or is the plan to just use SDO going forward?

Nice units overall I thought.
 

TABBHM

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Joined
14 Feb 2024
Messages
4
Location
Walsall
Does anyone know what the diagram is for 730s on the Cross City for today, and just Sundays in general?
 

trundlewagon

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4 Oct 2019
Messages
82
Location
Birmingham
Is there a plan to extend the platforms or is the plan to just use SDO going forward?
They fit in all the platforms - Bournville is the only one that's reasonably tight - think it's a software issue that needs resolving because there's quite a few stations where the rear doors don't release but the train is easily accommodated.
 

Abluhwleh

New Member
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27 Dec 2017
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4
Caught one last night between Birmingham and Walsall. Showed 730019 on the front car and 730022 on the back one. What's up with that, anyone know?
 

Russel

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30 Jun 2022
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1,181
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Lichfield
They fit in all the platforms - Bournville is the only one that's reasonably tight - think it's a software issue that needs resolving because there's quite a few stations where the rear doors don't release but the train is easily accommodated.

Ah, right, Lichfield City must be a bit tight too though as they stop right at the end of the platform in the Trent Valley direction with the cab door inches away from the ramp.
 

Kite159

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27 Jan 2014
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19,287
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West of Andover
I guess for certain stations the stopping point is slightly further back on a 730 compared with a 323 due to signal sighting being affected with the gangway?
 

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