Class 91 Wrong Way Round

[CDM Transport]

Hello,

Is 1N81 the wrong way round today / DVT leading out of London Kings Cross?

Caleb

 

[Bayum]

Realtime Trains show it as being a reverse consist but not sure in actuality. What does LNER site say?

 

[spyinthesky]

Reversed at Leeds on the 4th for Bradford FS. Came back to Neville Hill DVT at the front then worked South DVT at the rear.

 

[CDM Transport]

Reversed at Leeds on the 4th for Bradford FS. Came back to Neville Hill DVT at the front then worked South DVT at the rear.

So... what does that mean? Is it in reverse

 

[skyhigh]

So... what does that mean? Is it in reverse

Yes, the DVT is normally leading South.

 

[Twingo37175]

So... what does that mean? Is it in reverse

I would assume so, yes - DVT is normally at the south end and 91 at the north end

 

[CDM Transport]

Okay thanks

 

[spyinthesky]

1D30 KGX-BDQ on the 4th
91119 leading to Leeds then trailing to BDQ
5D30 BDQ to Neville Hill 91119 leading therefore it should have been trailing when worked south so I don’t see how the formation has been turned.

 

[CDM Transport]

UPDATE
IT IS IN NORMAL FORMATION

 

[DanNCL]

The only place a 225 set can be turned without the assistance of a thunderbird is Newcastle. There are still drivers who can take a set up there empty to be turned if needed but they can’t run in service up there anymore so it doesn’t happen unless absolutely necessary, last time it happened was in 2021 as they needed to be in reverse formation for temporary storage at Doncaster Belmont.

Individual vehicles can be turned on the turntable at Neville Hill, this happens with the 91s regularly for maintenance but they’re always put the correct way round again before returning to service.

 

[CDM Transport]

The only place a 225 set can be turned without the assistance of a thunderbird is Newcastle. There are still drivers who can take a set up there empty to be turned if needed but they can’t run in service up there anymore so it doesn’t happen unless absolutely necessary, last time it happened was in 2021 as they needed to be in reverse formation for temporary storage at Doncaster Belmont.

Individual vehicles can be turned on the turntable at Neville Hill, this happens with the 91s regularly for maintenance but they’re always put the correct way round again before returning to service.

Thanks for the info

 

[43094]

Definately not in reverse.

DanNCL is correct above.

 

[JKF]

Individual vehicles can be turned on the turntable at Neville Hill, this happens with the 91s regularly for maintenance but they’re always put the correct way round again before returning to service.

on the day Virgin took over running East Coast services many years back I saw a set in Leeds station with the class 91 attached the wrong way around, with the flat end at the front. I remember thinking ‘Branson hasn’t got the hang of this yet’. Unfortunately my phone was out of battery so I couldn’t take a picture and post this observation on Twitter!

 

[dk1]

on the day Virgin took over running East Coast services many years back I saw a set in Leeds station with the class 91 attached the wrong way around, with the flat end at the front. I remember thinking ‘Branson hasn’t got the hang of this yet’. Unfortunately my phone was out of battery so I couldn’t take a picture and post this observation on Twitter!

It happened many many times under BR too and all operators after it. Just meant a 110mph restriction and a slightly delayed arrival into the destination if loco leading.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

It happened many many times under BR too and all operators after it. Just meant a 110mph restriction and a slightly delayed arrival into the destination if loco leading.

IIRC pre-Mallard refurbishment, during periods of snowfall it was near-mandatory for southbound services to be hauled by the loco, rather than propelling from the rear. Possibly due to the problems with snow ingress via the air intakes on the loco?

 

[dk1]

IIRC pre-Mallard refurbishment, during periods of snowfall it was near-mandatory for southbound services to be hauled by the loco, rather than propelling from the rear. Possibly due to the problems with snow ingress via the air intakes on the loco?

That used to be the case with Anglo-Scottish WCML services. They wouldn’t use TDM.

 

[Taunton]

The only place a 225 set can be turned without the assistance of a thunderbird is Newcastle. There are still drivers who can take a set up there empty to be turned if needed but they can’t run in service up there anymore so it doesn’t happen unless absolutely necessary, last time it happened was in 2021 as they needed to be in reverse formation for temporary storage at Doncaster Belmont.

I described here a while ago (it was 2019) this happening leaving Newcastle southwards on a 225 service starting there, with no announcement at all before the train started in the "wrong" direction, and went over the High Level bridge. There was considerable confusion at stations along the route when, again apparently unannounced, it turned up the reverse way round. It didn't help that the reservations were not displayed.

There are two sorts of reverse with these trains, one where the whole train is turned around (as here), the other where just the locomotive is - described in another post here recently as running "tender first"!

 

[james_the_xv]

They have also been loco hauled blunt end first when DVTs have failed in some capacity (Windscreen Wiper failures spring to mind?)