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Do you think that the UK switching to electric vehicles is realistic?

corfield

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The cars I've used with it will allow overtaking and lane changes as long as you indicate. You should be indicating if you will cross the centre line anyway.
Not what my police driving instructor (note I wasnt police, this was private arrangement) taught me, which was to assess every other vehicle and whether they would benefit from me signalling. If nobody would, dont.

The aim being to ingrain that constant assessement of all other vehicles and the massive safety benefits that generates.

Auto signalling is a terrible habit to have.

These systems also directly act against necessary emergency manouevres. They’re very much “not safe” in my mind and I have never really noticed any issue with I or others departing my/their lane that wasnt fatigue/drink related anyway where the vastly bigger problem is driving in that state.

I turn the things off immediately and refused a hire car where it couldnt be (or at least neither myself or the agent could work out how).
 
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AM9

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While that's true, as we transition away from ICE to EV, all of the tech will eventually apply only to electric. Because of safety ratings, this tech will end up on even the most basic entry level models (unless the car maker is happy to sell a 0-1 rated car). Take the Dacia Spring as an example, which will likely get these features so as not to be zero rated.
But that is nothing to do with the thread title: "do you think that the uk switching to electric vehicles is realistic?", which not mean the sperad of electronic safety devices that are derived from recent design and construction regulations that apply equally to both electric cars and cars propelled by other means. Safety ratings are not related to propulsion modes except for a few detailed issues regarding hazardous fuels and even batteries. Those die hard pertrolheads who in 10 years will be looking at niche methods of procuring IC vehicles will still have to accept lane control etc. features where relevant.
 

jon0844

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By all means report my post(s) if you feel it should be removed, but I think there has to be some allowance of discussions about things relating to the cars to help people make a decision or share opinions on whether people are going to switch. If people think that all this tech is going to be a nightmare, they may opt to keep with a simple ICE car (there are many older tech cars still on sale) and cite that as a reason.

I feel that even the Dacia Spring is going to have these features to get a reasonable score, and that will mean there may not be many EVs that you can avoid it. I'd say the Citroen Ami but that's not really a proper car. Older cars can likely retain their original scores, akin to grandfather rights, so will remain until such time that people have switched.
 

jon81uk

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Not what my police driving instructor (note I wasnt police, this was private arrangement) taught me, which was to assess every other vehicle and whether they would benefit from me signalling. If nobody would, dont.

Whereas my regular driving instructor taught me always to indicate even if you couldn't obviously see another car as there might be pedestrians or cyclists who would benefit from knowing your intentions. If you are overtaking then there is another vehicle who I would expect it is good practice to inform them of your intention to overtake them before you cross the white lines down the centre of the road.
 

corfield

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Whereas my regular driving instructor taught me always to indicate even if you couldn't obviously see another car as there might be pedestrians or cyclists who would benefit from knowing your intentions.
That’s just lazy and poor instruction. You should be taught to see these people and/or account for them in your assessment of unsighted of areas. I was.

As a fail safe it doesnt even work as if you are happily ignorant of someone who has a genuine interaction with you then how are you manoeuvring safely in the first place…

If you are overtaking then there is another vehicle who I would expect it is good practice to inform them of your intention to overtake them before you cross the white lines down the centre of the road.
Hard to imagine you could come to the reasonable judgement that overtaking someone would see nobody benefiting from indicating…

Although past cyclists or fixed obstructions do pop to mind.

Into (long) turn/filter lanes requires crossing a line and yet often there is no need to indicate as being in that lane at the turn point (on say lights control) is more than sufficient.

Complex junctions see one crossing many lines without indicating, indeed indicators will often flip to off when you want them still on if manoeuvring. On large junctions this can be at speed (30-40).

These systems now require us to do something different so they can properly work. That is the antithesis of their purpose and a good approach to safety. Hence why I turn them off as the problem they “solve” has never actually been a problem anyway.

Indeed if people drive fatigued, the temptation to do that more is encouraged because “the car will keep me safe if I nod off”. As I’ve heard a colleague literally say about their long weekly commute.

The only reason we have them is as guinea pigs to develop self driving car technology for the future. Nothing to do with safety now.
 

DC1989

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Are electric cars 'easier' to drive? I suppose the question really is are modern (automatic) cars easier to drive than say, a 04 plate?
 

Harpers Tate

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I'd say a tiny touch easier than an automatic; all other things equal (i.e. with the same driver aids and so on). Subtle; not a huge difference.

Because: an electric transmission is always engaged and always in the right gear (for there is typically only the one). There is no use of a clutch or torque converter or fluid flywheel or (etc., - the components of an ICE transmission) because an electric motor can and does produce power right from 0 rpm ("stalled") and does not need to be either kept spinning at a few 100 rpm or be electrically started before it will work, and does not need different gear ratios. Electric motors are routinely stopped completely when the car isn't moving (because it's still in gear and there is no clutch or equivalent) and it doesn't affect them or their ability to propel the car.

It means that there is never any hesitation (however brief) while the transmission engages the motor and puts itself into the right gear for your actions, no hesitation (however brief) during acceleration as the gears shift and no similar hesitation (however brief) during "kickdown" for sudden acceleration as the gearbox changes itself down. All the power it has is available to you at the wheels immediately, all the time.

Whilst the driving method (two pedals) is fundamentally the same, it's perhaps important to recognise that EVs are not "automatic" in the true sense. "Automatic" suggests that something that is needed is done for you; that something being - disengaging the engine while it continues to turn over and changing gear. In an EV that something simply isn't needed - so it doesn't happen at all.
 

trebor79

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Are electric cars 'easier' to drive? I suppose the question really is are modern (automatic) cars easier to drive than say, a 04 plate?
Much, much nicer to drive than an automatic. No slushiness when you push the accelerator, no trying to constantly creep forward when stopped. Just instant torque and power delivered the instant you squeeze the pedal.
I barely use the brakes, basically only use the brake pedal if I've misjudged stopping distance or something unexpected has happened ahead.
 
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Deafdoggie

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Much, much nicer to drive than an automatic. No slushiness when you push the accelerator, no trying to constantly creep forward when stopped. Just instant torque and power delivered the instant you squeeze the pedal.
I barely use the brakes, basically only use the break pedal if I've misjudged stopping distance or something unexpected has happened ahead.
I'm exactly the same. Can't remember the last time I touched the brake.
 

pdq

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so your car decelerates a lot and no red light to the rear to tell other road users you are slowing?
Brake lights come on automatically depending on the rate of deceleration, or if the brake itself is pressed.
 

Harpers Tate

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so your car decelerates a lot and no red light to the rear to tell other road users you are slowing?
As above; that is incorrect. The brake lights are not directly linked to use of the pedal; they are determined by the car itself which knows when it's decelerating at a sufficient rate (however you make that happen).
 

Deafdoggie

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so your car decelerates a lot and no red light to the rear to tell other road users you are slowing?
Depends on the car. I have a Leaf which is designed for one-pedal driving (although they do stress there is a brake you can use in an emergency!) As you ease off the accelerator the brakes apply. Take your foot totally off and it brings you to a nice stop even on a downhill.
And this is regen braking so it's charging the battery whilst doing it too.
 

dgl

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Our electric vans at work will still creep forward if the brake is not depressed if it's in drive, it's designed for when you are in traffic so that you only need to lift off the brake to creep forward. Bit of a strange feeling when I got one of the drivers to try it out and we were going slowly uphill without pressing the accelerator.
 

trebor79

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Our electric vans at work will still creep forward if the brake is not depressed if it's in drive, it's designed for when you are in traffic so that you only need to lift off the brake to creep forward. Bit of a strange feeling when I got one of the drivers to try it out and we were going slowly uphill without pressing the accelerator.
Yeah, I hate creep mode in electric vehicles and it's a deal breaker for me if it can't be turned off.
It's a stupid thing they came up with to make it mimic ICE automatic.
 

Adam Williams

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Depends on the car. I have a Leaf which is designed for one-pedal driving (although they do stress there is a brake you can use in an emergency!) As you ease off the accelerator the brakes apply. Take your foot totally off and it brings you to a nice stop even on a downhill.
And this is regen braking so it's charging the battery whilst doing it too.
I have to admin the one-pedal driving that Nissan do is really nice to use. Now that I've found a way to charge w/ CCS I'm intending to hold onto my Leaf a bit longer, but it was one of the features I thought I'd really miss if I ever changed car.
 

Mikw

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I have no problem at all with electronic safety aids. We're not all perfect. My car's "Lane trace assist" held me between the lines the other day when i caught the steering wheel trying to usher a spider out of the car.
Similarly, the radar cruise control is a godsend on the motorways. If you're doing a long drive you can "drift off" for a second or two, it applies the brakes and that acts as an alert.
 

Deafdoggie

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I have to admin the one-pedal driving that Nissan do is really nice to use. Now that I've found a way to charge w/ CCS I'm intending to hold onto my Leaf a bit longer, but it was one of the features I thought I'd really miss if I ever changed car.
How do you charge with CCS?
 

trebor79

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I have to admin the one-pedal driving that Nissan do is really nice to use. Now that I've found a way to charge w/ CCS I'm intending to hold onto my Leaf a bit longer, but it was one of the features I thought I'd really miss if I ever changed car.
Lots of EVs offer one pedal driving.
 

Harpers Tate

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There is a circumstance when "creep" is useful, and that when manoeuvering very gingerly in a tight space (such as my garage, replete with all sorts of other stuff). With a manual, you can creep by slipping the clutch gently on idle. EVs have no clutch. In this and similar circumstances, I'd let it creep and modulate the speed using only the brake pedal. If it wouldn't creep, I'd have to use the trottle, and that isn't fine enough for this type of movement.
 

Roast Veg

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There is a circumstance when "creep" is useful, and that when manoeuvering very gingerly in a tight space (such as my garage, replete with all sorts of other stuff). With a manual, you can creep by slipping the clutch gently on idle. EVs have no clutch. In this and similar circumstances, I'd let it creep and modulate the speed using only the brake pedal. If it wouldn't creep, I'd have to use the trottle, and that isn't fine enough for this type of movement.
For many cars without creep, the throttle intentionally becomes very insensitive to allow for fine slow speed control.
 

trebor79

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There is a circumstance when "creep" is useful, and that when manoeuvering very gingerly in a tight space (such as my garage, replete with all sorts of other stuff). With a manual, you can creep by slipping the clutch gently on idle. EVs have no clutch. In this and similar circumstances, I'd let it creep and modulate the speed using only the brake pedal. If it wouldn't creep, I'd have to use the trottle, and that isn't fine enough for this type of movement.
Tell me you've never driven one-pedal EV without telling me you've never driven one-pedal EV.
The BMW i3 I hired, our Kia Niro and my Tesla all have one-pedal driving. And all of them if you want to move the car 1mm, you can do so easily.
The one-pedal is far, far more controllable than trying to manage creep on the brake.
 

Harpers Tate

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I have driven a Tesla 3 for a week (rental in the USA), and an Ioniq 5 for a day (loaner). Perhaps it's a matter of familiarity or use; I find doing what I describe easier.
 

RailWonderer

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The reality is that dealers cannot shift their electric vehicle stock, and they are piling up on forecourts in the UK and in other countries. Expensive battery replacement will always be out of warranty added to the high cost of purchasing new without being able to use for long journeys due to lack of charging infrastructure and shortage of charging points. So the answer to the thread question is no, not realistic because switchover timeframes are too short. The govt is not investing in the infrastructure and car companies are not charities, they will not replace your battery free of charge which costs £10k plus.
 

stuu

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The reality is that dealers cannot shift their electric vehicle stock, and they are piling up on forecourts in the UK and in other countries. Expensive battery replacement will always be out of warranty added to the high cost of purchasing new without being able to use for long journeys due to lack of charging infrastructure and shortage of charging points. So the answer to the thread question is no, not realistic because switchover timeframes are too short. The govt is not investing in the infrastructure and car companies are not charities, they will not replace your battery free of charge which costs £10k plus.
That doesn't match this recent announcement:
At the end of April 2024, there were 61,232 electric vehicle charging points across the UK, across 32,697 charging locations. This represents a 45% increase in the total number of charging devices since April 2023

Do you have any sources for your statements?
 

Deafdoggie

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The reality is that dealers cannot shift their electric vehicle stock, and they are piling up on forecourts in the UK and in other countries. Expensive battery replacement will always be out of warranty added to the high cost of purchasing new without being able to use for long journeys due to lack of charging infrastructure and shortage of charging points. So the answer to the thread question is no, not realistic because switchover timeframes are too short. The govt is not investing in the infrastructure and car companies are not charities, they will not replace your battery free of charge which costs £10k plus.
There are more EV charging points than petrol stations. Exactly how much infrastructure do you want in place?
Current lead times on new EVs are around 2 years, so i'm not sure where all this stock on forecourts is?
Very, very few EV batteries have been replaced. Indeed so few that Nissan don't even have enough old ones to start their recycling of old ones program!
 

ExRes

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Just driven my first ever electric car, a 73 reg 900 mile Corsa GS courtesy car while my car is being serviced, power available went from 54% to 48% in 9 miles, does this sound acceptable? maybe I'm not getting something obvious, can this really equate to the cars range?
 

bspahh

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Just driven my first ever electric car, a 73 reg 900 mile Corsa GS courtesy car while my car is being serviced, power available went from 54% to 48% in 9 miles, does this sound acceptable? maybe I'm not getting something obvious, can this really equate to the cars range?
The WLTP range for a Corsa GS is 222 miles. That range is meant to be a consistent number that you can compare between different models of car, rather than the range that you would get in real world driving.

A 6 % drop in charge in 9 miles would give a pro rata range of 150 miles. Its not far off what you would expect.
 

RailWonderer

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There are more EV charging points than petrol stations. Exactly how much infrastructure do you want in place?
Current lead times on new EVs are around 2 years, so i'm not sure where all this stock on forecourts is?
Very, very few EV batteries have been replaced. Indeed so few that Nissan don't even have enough old ones to start their recycling of old ones program!
A single petrol station has at least two pumps, most have four or six. When you queye behind another car in the petrol station, they will be gone in 5 mins or less. Waiting for an EV to charge, plus charging yours and you've wasted an hour doing nothing.
Google images and pretty much every publication and car dealer cites not being able to shift their EV stock. People don't want them. Lots of people who rent houses won't pay to install charging ports on their drive and same for people who rent or own properties in terraced streets.
Nissan isn't the only EV maker. BMW, Kia, Tesla and MG make them mass market as well. Nissan city cars don't fit the needs for most families, hobbyists and people who need space to pile their stuff in including pets and such.
Do you have any sources for your statements?
Who wants to stop 30-40 mins and have a significntly longer journey time when road speeds are going down to 20mph in Wales and Surrey already. Our roads are overcongested and slow and on top of that, do you really want to stop for so long when all you want to do is just get to your destination? This isn't about stats, it's about the human experience of living with an EV. Continuing to develop petrol hybrids will yield far more cleaner and efficient engines than ever on the other hand.
 

Harpers Tate

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Who wants to stop 30-40 mins and have a significntly longer journey time.....
Who wants to always be having to visit a petrol forecourt once or twice (or more) a month regardless of what driving they do? I don't want to, and I don't do so. My car was full this morning without me going anywhere. As it will be again tomorrow or the next day.
On an occasional long trip, who doesn't want (or need, even) to stop for a 20-30 minute R&R break after say 3 hours driving (motorway etc) or 6 hours (normal roads)?

If "people" don't want EVs then those "people" are those who have either heard from a bloke in the pub, read in the tabloid media, or even on a forum such as this, how utterly dreadful EV ownership and use is must be. For the record - it isn't!

But it is different. And we all know instinctively that different is always bad - right?
 

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