Driver looking for career change...

[baz962]

Looking at the DMs where I am, they work long hours and seem stressed much of the time. There’s a lot of admin to wade through and endless paperwork. There are some unpleasant aspects to the job for example dealing with disciplinary hearings, and some of the railway’s more confrontational characters.

They do a five day week, sometimes more when they’re expected to be on call, or need to catch someone who is working late shifts for an assessment. No overtime available and they get paid less than drivers get as where I am the uplift for DMs in London is less than the London weighting given to drivers.

If the DM job where I am paid circa. £80k basic, as it does at LNER, it might start to look attractive.

To be honest though it's harder for our dm's because you are a nightmare to manage

 

[43066]

To be honest though it's harder for our dm's because you are a nightmare to manage

It’s been easier for everyone since they gave up trying to make me wear the correct uniform .

 

[Aviator88]

Aviation (specifically 'pilot') - a lot of money and training to get your foot on the ladder. You'll break even after 5-10 years and start enjoying your money, which will now be around £60-100k. Very prestigious (even nowadays), lots of responsibility, great people to work with, but fairly poor job security when stood against comparable jobs.

Logistics (specifically 'HGV driver', or 'LGV driver' if we want to be anal about terms) - very low initial investment, qualified in a few weeks/couple of months. Instantly earning £40-65k, lots of jobs with decent unionisation (Royal Mail as mentioned above - fuel tankers can be lumped in this category too), option to work through an agency and work when you like, very chilled job most of the time, and you truly do feel like your own boss. However, you will be spoken to like garbage and treated as sub-human on an almost daily basis, by managers/customers/colleagues, in the majority of jobs. You will also be working between 40-70 hours a week to achieve the above figures.

I've held both the job titles above in my life, and I'm joining the railway shortly, so it's impossible for me to draw comparisons in this respect yet. I do know a former tanker driver who has moved into train driving, and upon reflection, they vehemently stated to me that they would  never return to logistics, generally for the reasons I mentioned above. Make of that what you will. Funnily enough, I also know a pilot who became a HGV driver and stated the same thing. Horses for courses.

I do get the impression that leaving the railway shouldn't be done lightly, for all the reasons people have listed above.

 

[Class2ldn]

I guess as long as you leave on good terms and come back within the time frame to still be classed as qualified then if it doesn't work out at least you can say you gave it a go.

 

[baz962]

It’s been easier for everyone since they gave up trying to make me wear the correct uniform .

Still trying to work out why you keep turning up in a traffic warden uniform

 

[Train_manager]

.

Logistics (specifically 'HGV driver', or 'LGV driver' if we want to be anal about terms) - very low initial investment, qualified in a few weeks/couple of months. Instantly earning £40-65k, lots of jobs with decent unionisation (Royal Mail as mentioned above - fuel tankers can be lumped in this category too), option to work through an agency and work when you like, very chilled job most of the time, and you truly do feel like your own boss. However, you will be spoken to like garbage and treated as sub-human on an almost daily basis, by managers/customers/colleagues, in the majority of jobs. You will also be working between 40-70 hours a week to achieve the above figures.

Anyone that thinks they can pass there HGV licence and walk instantly into a £40K paying job is in for a BIG shock!!!!

Most HGV companies want a minimum of two years driving experience. So you will be stuck working for agencies for minimum wage doing 60 hours a week.

Hours - 15 hour days with minimum 9 hour daily rest. You can do this 3 times a week!!! Standard working day is 13 hour with 11 hour daily rest.

Crack on if you fancy it but DON`T give up a railway job for it and don`t believe the BS that HGV compaines promise you.

 

[Aviator88]

Anyone that thinks they can pass there HGV licence and walk instantly into a £40K paying job is in for a BIG shock!!!!

Most HGV companies want a minimum of two years driving experience. So you will be stuck working for agencies for minimum wage doing 60 hours a week.

Hours - 15 hour days with minimum 9 hour daily rest. You can do this 3 times a week!!! Standard working day is 13 hour with 11 hour daily rest.

Crack on if you fancy it but DON`T give up a railway job for it and don`t believe the BS that HGV compaines promise you.

I've always found that the opposite is true - you're more likely to get in with a company as a full time driver when brand new because they usually have insurance policies in place to accommodate this. They'll usually have trained warehouse/office staff up in the past, and retained those policies. Agencies, on the other hand, want you 'ready to go'. That usually means aged over 25, 2 years experience, < 6 points and no DD endorsements. My first HGV job was with a local haulier with a bad reputation for low pay and hard work. Got some experience then buggered off to an agency to do it on my own terms. In many ways it was the easiest time of my life - choosing the work I wanted to do, and literally telling them when I wasn't available to work.

Wages have inflated in the past two years, and £40k is pretty par for the course on general haulage work now, depending on location, even for an inexperienced driver.

Having said that, you'll probably get the rubbish work nobody else wants - curtainside, long days, lots of load strapping, city centres etc.

I always advise people going into HGV driving to aim for anything that doesn't have curtains - dry boxes, fridges (supermarket work), tankers (flour or fuel, although the latter can be quite intense) or containers.

Anecdotally, I'm not sure why somebody would move from rail to road. A  lot have tried (and failed) to move the other way, likely for good reason.

 

[Vinny86]

Going from train driver to hgv would be a seamless transition and also fairly easy. As an outsider just getting onto the trains is a hard task. I know if in the event I ever make it onto the railways, if it doesn’t suit me I’d go back to the roads. But like others have stated. Until you find a niche ‘comfortable’ place it’s not all that, and you get spoken to like trash. I found a job after 10 years, £40k don’t always work my full hours. The experience thing isn’t quite what it used to be. Some companies do a lot of warehouse to wheels programs.

 

[Vespa]

Royal Mail do pay decent wages even at LGV level, hours are decent depending on depots you work at, you have the option of permanent nights which bumps up your wages a lot or days/afternoons, if you sign for a section you will know your hours and days off 6 or 12 weeks in advance, you can also do overtime to make up your wages almost near to a basic lower tier train drivers salary.

You have to manage your driving hours, daily rest and breaks.

HGV do a lot of awkward hours especially night time running, they will have night allowance and overtime attached to the duty.




I have considered going over to the railways once I've retired from RM, whether as a driver is another thing entirely.

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

I've often wondered whether I could do "this" (driving trains) for the remaining 20 odd years, but likewise nothing really comes up that pays anywhere near what I earn at the moment for a 4 day week and no degree. Management (at least driver management) is not my thing at all. Before joining the railway I was seriously looking into the merchant marine, but didn't end up doing it. The pay probably would be similar at this point in my life, if not more, but i'd be away from home for long stretches, and I don't think I'd like that nowadays, not being in my 20's anymore and with a house and family.
I think you need to see this job for what it is, good pay, good time off and you're left alone to get on with it mostly. I've changed company once so far in my 15 years as a driver, and it was just what I needed to mix it up a bit and make it feel a bit new and interesting again. I swear half of the problem with boredom etc in this job is once you get to that point where you've essentially done everything. When the signaler or control or whoever could call you up and whatever it is won't phase you because its been done before or you feel confident with it. There's nothing like a bit of uncertainty to make you feel challenged!

 

[Class2ldn]

I wouldn't mind going into the training side of it but at my current place its quite a small department and opportunities are limited to say the least.
Management I wouldn't mind because of the monday-friday aspect but the job itself doesn't really appeal.

 

[Edw00d108]

Has anyone considered or moved over to Project Management? Seems to attract a decent salary with plenty of training opportunites provided by different providers (universities, PRINCE qualification etc) granted you generally have to pay to gain the qualification.

 

[43066]

Anyone that thinks they can pass there HGV licence and walk instantly into a £40K paying job is in for a BIG shock!!!!

Most HGV companies want a minimum of two years driving experience. So you will be stuck working for agencies for minimum wage doing 60 hours a week.

Hours - 15 hour days with minimum 9 hour daily rest. You can do this 3 times a week!!! Standard working day is 13 hour with 11 hour daily rest.

Crack on if you fancy it but DON`T give up a railway job for it and don`t believe the BS that HGV compaines promise you.

The above rings very true. I actually know someone who did this, left a train driving role to move to a different part of the UK to pursue truck driving. He had struggled with the shifts and didn’t seem particularly happy in the role, but it didn’t sound like a particularly sensible move.

From colleagues who are still in touch with him, one of the jobs involved picking up dead animals from farms (he walked out), and he’s been doing agency work since. He’s realised he’s made a massive mistake and is now trying to get back onto the railway, which will likely be easier said than done having left the industry once.

Still trying to work out why you keep turning up in a traffic warden uniform

It beats coming to work looking like an Oompa Loompa, I’ll leave that to you .

I might start dressing up as a Shinkansen driver next, complete with peaked cap and epaulets… Wishful thinking .

 

[Logic]

If you live close to London you could consider studying the knowledge and becoming a London Cabbie.

 

[357]

Still trying to work out why you keep turning up in a traffic warden uniform

If that's the only outfit you've seen then you got off lightly!

 

[Economist]

If the OP doesn't mind being in an office, ATC might be an option. The training pay is low but it's one of a few careers which can pay more than train driving without training debt.

It's not easy to get into and training has quite a high failure rate, I've been told by an ATC instructor that many of those who fail do so towards the end of the course due to struggling with high volumes of traffic.

 

[Gemz91]

Interesting that a few people on here have said the same about being unhappy in the role. I’m the same, ten years driving now and feel there’s little room for career progression. I’ve considered Driver Manager, but it appears my face doesn’t fit and the current DM’s have their preferred candidates who they want to apply to be the next DM’s and I’m not one of them (incidentally the ones who they want to apply aren’t interested in the role). I’ve noticed a lot of the new drivers (less then 3 years experience) are already saying they’re board and not enjoying the job, but are already stuck.

Obviously the wage is a big barrier. I’ve seriously considered giving up the railway, I was looking at jobs at the local YMCA working with homeless people. The jobs were on £30k a year, so would be a huge pay cut, but I feel the job satisfaction would be worth it. I have done volunteering before, but find it hard to commit to to fitting it around shift work and family life. Struggling at the moment to balance the wage with the feeling of job satisfaction and happiness at home.

 

[anglian96]

Interesting that a few people on here have said the same about being unhappy in the role. I’m the same, ten years driving now and feel there’s little room for career progression. I’ve considered Driver Manager, but it appears my face doesn’t fit and the current DM’s have their preferred candidates who they want to apply to be the next DM’s and I’m not one of them (incidentally the ones who they want to apply aren’t interested in the role). I’ve noticed a lot of the new drivers (less then 3 years experience) are already saying they’re board and not enjoying the job, but are already stuck.

Obviously the wage is a big barrier. I’ve seriously considered giving up the railway, I was looking at jobs at the local YMCA working with homeless people. The jobs were on £30k a year, so would be a huge pay cut, but I feel the job satisfaction would be worth it. I have done volunteering before, but find it hard to commit to to fitting it around shift work and family life. Struggling at the moment to balance the wage with the feeling of job satisfaction and happiness at home.

If a DM role was something you'd consider then apply for another TOC/FOC when a vacancy arrises. Don't have to stay with the same firm. LNER recently recruited for one.

 

[LKS]

This is an interesting read for someone waiting to come into the industry..

I'm at the 10 year point of my emergency service career, and the pay, conditions etc are no where near what the railway seems to offer, and almost seeing it with blinkers as a "retirement" from what I'm currently doing. But obviously, there's the point of only seeing what I want to see.

I must add, that I've always had an interest in this industry, and in fact tried in 2012 before joining service and was unsuccessful, so haven't just plucked this out of the air.

However, with all what people are saying, it's certainly worth thinking about whilst I wait to be called up for a course.

 

[baz962]

This is an interesting read for someone waiting to come into the industry..

I'm at the 10 year point of my emergency service career, and the pay, conditions etc are no where near what the railway seems to offer, and almost seeing it with blinkers as a "retirement" from what I'm currently doing. But obviously, there's the point of only seeing what I want to see.

I must add, that I've always had an interest in this industry, and in fact tried in 2012 before joining service and was unsuccessful, so haven't just plucked this out of the air.

However, with all what people are saying, it's certainly worth thinking about whilst I wait to be called up for a course.

Well we don't know what you currently earn , but you could come into the industry but live within your current means so if you don't like it you aren't dependent on the money. I would also be stuck , however I still love train driving. I have considered other options but that's because I seem to be falling apart as I age and I'm wondering if it's the shifts. The shifts can be brutal for some and not just because you have a 4am start etc , but because they aren't very consistent. In some industries you might start at four but you would be four all week. On the railway it could be 4am today then 6am tomorrow and 7am the next day and then back to 4am
Also the shifts aren't bang on the hour so could be 04.23 then 04.47 etc .
However it's a great career and you will almost certainly be doing the right thing.

 

[Gemz91]

If a DM role was something you'd consider then apply for another TOC/FOC when a vacancy arrises. Don't have to stay with the same firm. LNER recently recruited for one.

Cheers. My problem is location, I’m too far away from other TOCs to apply elsewhere, and not wanting to uproot family. I’ve not considered FOCs, not too sure how their management grade works, if it’s office based or remote.

 

[LKS]

Well we don't know what you currently earn , but you could come into the industry but live within your current means so if you don't like it you aren't dependent on the money. I would also be stuck , however I still love train driving. I have considered other options but that's because I seem to be falling apart as I age and I'm wondering if it's the shifts. The shifts can be brutal for some and not just because you have a 4am start etc , but because they aren't very consistent. In some industries you might start at four but you would be four all week. On the railway it could be 4am today then 6am tomorrow and 7am the next day and then back to 4am
Also the shifts aren't bang on the hour so could be 04.23 then 04.47 etc .
However it's a great career and you will almost certainly be doing the right thing.

My starting training salary would be less, but from year 1 onwards I would start to earn more...

The shifts do seem to be all over the place within the railways, however, I don't feel it's any worse than what I currently have. I appreciate we don't have like a 04.02 start, however, we can be on a 1600-0200 then next day be 1300-2300, having minimal 11 hour gap then be onto a night shift with half a day plus one to turn around into a 0600 start.

But I'm hoping that this is a good move. Majority of people within the railways I know enjoy their job. I will still have the option of returning into my current world or finding an alternative post for my qualification should it not work out.

But the only way of really knowing is by doing and trying.

 

[Frothy_B]

There's always an itch to move and try something else isn't there?

I left an incredibly niche HGV driving job, and there were many legitimate reasons for me to do so. Money, time at home with family, pension. When I look at the lifestyle I've left behind though I often find myself missing it. I could be in Rome one week and Stockholm the next. The entirety of Europe was my office and I got to experience all the different food, languages and cultures and I was being paid to do it!

I'm now in a Signal Box for a bit less money, but a decent pension with the prospect of the Railway Pension in a few years. I'm home every day and there is potential for career advancement.

Whilst discussing changing jobs with my wife the possibility of going into general HGV driving came up and I said no way. Been there, done that. You're worked to the max if the company can get away with it. You will still work unsociable hours or stupid start times. Theres no union to watch out for you and you're still one **** up away from losing your job, your license, or potentially killing yourself or others.

If you're bored of doing the same route all the time then HGV driving doesn't necessarily help there either with trunking jobs pretty much being the exact same route every night.

There ARE gems of HGV jobs out there but finding them is incredibly difficult with it simply being luck alot of the time that you live within a reasonable distance, they are hiring at the time you are looking etc. In the meantime you will work **** jobs and after you get spoken to like you're a knuckle dragging idiot for the 10th time in a day you may wonder why the hell you ever decided to give up driving trains.

 

[dctraindriver]

Interesting that a few people on here have said the same about being unhappy in the role. I’m the same, ten years driving now and feel there’s little room for career progression. I’ve considered Driver Manager, but it appears my face doesn’t fit and the current DM’s have their preferred candidates who they want to apply to be the next DM’s and I’m not one of them (incidentally the ones who they want to apply aren’t interested in the role). I’ve noticed a lot of the new drivers (less then 3 years experience) are already saying they’re board and not enjoying the job, but are already stuck.

Obviously the wage is a big barrier. I’ve seriously considered giving up the railway, I was looking at jobs at the local YMCA working with homeless people. The jobs were on £30k a year, so would be a huge pay cut, but I feel the job satisfaction would be worth it. I have done volunteering before, but find it hard to commit to to fitting it around shift work and family life. Struggling at the moment to balance the wage with the feeling of job satisfaction and happiness at home.

Go for it. If you’re unhappy if you can put a bit away for a few months to build a cushion, go for what you want and cut your cloth accordingly. Driving is my 3rd career and I’m about half a decade away from retiring but I left my previous careers when things weren’t right.

This suits me now, most days I’m still happy I made the jump but when you spend 1/3 of your life at work it’s important to enjoy what you do. Happiness is worth more than the big bucks.

 

[185]

looking for advice as a train driver of 10 years and actually wanting career change ideas if anyone can help?

...a change of pace, move north or out to the country, but stay driving - just do as many, many others from the smoke have done and move north. A pokey little property price in the south probably buys a 4-bed detached with big garden in the north. To quote someone just last week who's already done this, the work is very different and the pace is far more relaxed - its a very different job that plodding around on soulless DOO trains.

 

[Horizon22]

This is an interesting read for someone waiting to come into the industry..

I'm at the 10 year point of my emergency service career, and the pay, conditions etc are no where near what the railway seems to offer, and almost seeing it with blinkers as a "retirement" from what I'm currently doing. But obviously, there's the point of only seeing what I want to see.

I must add, that I've always had an interest in this industry, and in fact tried in 2012 before joining service and was unsuccessful, so haven't just plucked this out of the air.

However, with all what people are saying, it's certainly worth thinking about whilst I wait to be called up for a course.

I think it's old adage of "the grass is always greener on the other side"!

Objectively however, rail staff are generally paid very well with good T&Cs compared to most other industries. Okay there can be extreme shifts to deal with the general public (for certain roles) and levels of responsibility, but this is not unique to the railway.

There is a reason that applications for trainee driver vacancies reach well into the hundreds.

 

[43066]

If you live close to London you could consider studying the knowledge and becoming a London Cabbie.

There are three ex cabbies at my depot, none of whom recommend it for various reasons: Lots of effort for little reward (self employed but long hours needed to earn decent money), dealing with drunks, lots of competition because the world and his dog can drive passengers these days, driving in London traffic all day etc.

I think it's old adage of "the grass is always greener on the other side"!

Objectively however, rail staff are generally paid very well with good T&Cs compared to most other industries. Okay there can be extreme shifts to deal with the general public (for certain roles) and levels of responsibility, but this is not unique to the railway.

There is a reason that applications for trainee driver vacancies reach well into the hundreds.

Probably less so these days than historically. Some of our platform staff, for example, increasingly feel that their pay isn’t keeping up with supermarkets etc.

 

[Horizon22]

Probably less so these days than historically. Some of our platform staff, for example, increasingly feel that their pay isn’t keeping up with supermarkets etc.

True, but the context of this thread is about a train driver looking for a career change.

 

[WAB]

Probably less so these days than historically. Some of our platform staff, for example, increasingly feel that their pay isn’t keeping up with supermarkets etc.

It's really only the traincrew grades, although signaller grades are OK too. For these, the pay is difficult to give up. Station staff on the other hand don't compare that favourably to other industries. Perhaps everyone still thinks of what railway salaries were worth relative to other industries 15 years ago. Even in a white collar grade, my salary should be about £10-15k more than it is given historic salaries for the post and what similar posts in other industries earn. It'd be easier for me to jump than traincrew, that's for sure.

 

[Aviator88]

There are three ex cabbies at my depot, none of whom recommend it for various reasons: Lots of effort for little reward (self employed but long hours needed to earn decent money), dealing with drunks, lots of competition because the world and his dog can drive passengers these days, driving in London traffic all day etc.

You've got to really love the job and the city to do black cabs.

I'd recommend "Tom the Taxi Driver" on YouTube for anybody who considers this, including perhaps the OP. Full breakdown of the job, including every positive and negative you can think of!