ABB125
Established Member
0 points. What a surprise...
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Eurovision 2024 discussion.
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RailUK Forums
Win for Switzerland, and well deserved. Good overall performance and a fairly catchy song.
What are you referring to?
Trainguy34
Member
A worthy winner, just a shame about Netherlands.
ABB125
Established Member
The public vote given to the UK
ANDREW_D_WEBB
Member
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Not really. The song was bland and the UK is never popular with the public.The public vote for UK. Brutal
I am now firmly in favour if Brexit and renounce my previous remain views
At least we got some points from the jury vote. We've had an actual zero overall beforehand!
It wasn't the worst effort we've sent in recent years, but I agree that it wasn't good enough.
ABB125
Established Member
We had some rather interesting staging, but I guess most of the European public isn't interested in things like that.
My "brutal" comment was more to do with the 0 when everyone else got something, that would sting me as a performer. Felt similar when Norway got told they had 4
The usual caveats apply that Sweden's legal system isn't like the UK's - the police shove pretty much everything at a prosecutor who decides if there's anything worth doing more investigation into. The Dutch broadcaster have put out a *very* strong defence of him, and frankly the timing of it all, including how late the police complaint went in, doesn't seem to reflect very well on the EBU.
We'll see how it plays out over the next few weeks, but the sustained booing that the EBU production chief got speaks volumes about what the audience in the hall thought of it all.
Rightfully so. My least favourite was Greece but UK was the most boring by far. We are never popular with the public but why would we be if we submit such a poor song?
I had Graham Norton in one ear and Norwegian radio in the other which was interesting. They were a bit gutted about coming last, particularly since the other Scandi countries didn't give them anything. Luckily the Swedish entry was also Norwegian they had a backup.
Overall they weren't afraid to deal with the Israel issue head on, while Norton seemed to do a bit of a subdued "don't mention the war' kind of presentation
Overall they weren't afraid to deal with the Israel issue head on, while Norton seemed to do a bit of a subdued "don't mention the war' kind of presentation
Historically the Song Contest was broadcast as a bit of fun to show off the capabilities of Eurovision to distribute content to multiple countries live, in the pre satellite and IP days. It never really was primarily a singing competition, even then.
HullRailMan
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Any member (plus associates) of the Eurovision Broadcasting Union can participate - hence Israel, Azerbaijan, Australia etc. even Morocco entered, but only once.
The disconnect between the vocal minority of protesters and the hefty public vote for Israel was stark. Israel got almost twice as many votes from the public as the winner. The noisy pro-Hamas position may not be as popular as their echo chamber tells them.
As for the UK - send a poor live vocal performer and that is the result. We came second two years ago, so clearly the UK can pick up votes if they are deserved. The BBC have chosen the singer and sing internally for the past four years, with three acts doing terribly. The public selection needs to return.
The disconnect between the vocal minority of protesters and the hefty public vote for Israel was stark. Israel got almost twice as many votes from the public as the winner. The noisy pro-Hamas position may not be as popular as their echo chamber tells them.
As for the UK - send a poor live vocal performer and that is the result. We came second two years ago, so clearly the UK can pick up votes if they are deserved. The BBC have chosen the singer and sing internally for the past four years, with three acts doing terribly. The public selection needs to return.
DanNCL
Established Member
Israel winning would have been a disaster, I’m glad that didn’t happen.
Never thought I’d say this but thank god for the Juries, if it had been Televote only then Israel could have won.
Switzerland deserved the win and had been my favourite song of the year sing the day it came out.
This year has been, frankly, a sh*t storm. Issue after issue. Incidents/controversies include:
Tuesday:
Eric Saade (Sweden 2011) opening the show wearing a Keffiyeh and getting into trouble with the EBU.
Ireland’s Bambie Thug being made at the last minute to remove makeup where the word ‘ceasefire’ had been written in ogham script on their face.
Disrespectful commentary by the Israeli commentator towards Ireland’s Bambie Thug.
Thursday:
Leak of Italian vote in the semi final.
Anti-Israel message on screen at the start of the Belgian broadcast.
Friday:
The Netherlands’ Joost Klein suspended from rehearsals following an ‘incident’, no further details.
Saturday:
Disqualification of the Netherlands.
Martin Österdahl booed repeatedly.
Absence of Ireland, Greece and Switzerland from the start of the dress rehearsal.
Unspecified incident backstage involving Ireland.
Withdrawal of spokespersons from The Netherlands, Finland and Norway in protest.
Dutch commentator reportedly filmed saying ‘f*ck the EBU*. (sorry I don’t have a link)
Throughout the week:
Booing of Israel in every single performance.
Alleged harassment of various contestants by members of the Israeli delegation.
For some positives:
It’s clear from the broadcast that the atmosphere in the area wasn’t comfortable, and the two presenters did a good job. Can’t say it’s a surprise with Petra Mede, she is after all an ‘expert’ having hosted Eurovision twice before.
The music quality this year was as a rule better than it’s been in many previous years.
A deserving winner won.
Overall though, even with complete disaster avoided, it’s difficult to see how Martin Österdahl and other senior EBU leaders can stay in their positions after this. This is without doubt the most controversial edition of Eurovision.
Never thought I’d say this but thank god for the Juries, if it had been Televote only then Israel could have won.
Switzerland deserved the win and had been my favourite song of the year sing the day it came out.
This year has been, frankly, a sh*t storm. Issue after issue. Incidents/controversies include:
Tuesday:
Eric Saade (Sweden 2011) opening the show wearing a Keffiyeh and getting into trouble with the EBU.
Ireland’s Bambie Thug being made at the last minute to remove makeup where the word ‘ceasefire’ had been written in ogham script on their face.
Disrespectful commentary by the Israeli commentator towards Ireland’s Bambie Thug.
Thursday:
Leak of Italian vote in the semi final.
Anti-Israel message on screen at the start of the Belgian broadcast.
Friday:
The Netherlands’ Joost Klein suspended from rehearsals following an ‘incident’, no further details.
Saturday:
Disqualification of the Netherlands.
Martin Österdahl booed repeatedly.
Absence of Ireland, Greece and Switzerland from the start of the dress rehearsal.
Unspecified incident backstage involving Ireland.
Withdrawal of spokespersons from The Netherlands, Finland and Norway in protest.
Dutch commentator reportedly filmed saying ‘f*ck the EBU*. (sorry I don’t have a link)
Throughout the week:
Booing of Israel in every single performance.
Alleged harassment of various contestants by members of the Israeli delegation.
For some positives:
It’s clear from the broadcast that the atmosphere in the area wasn’t comfortable, and the two presenters did a good job. Can’t say it’s a surprise with Petra Mede, she is after all an ‘expert’ having hosted Eurovision twice before.
The music quality this year was as a rule better than it’s been in many previous years.
A deserving winner won.
Overall though, even with complete disaster avoided, it’s difficult to see how Martin Österdahl and other senior EBU leaders can stay in their positions after this. This is without doubt the most controversial edition of Eurovision.
The public vote may have been slightly impacted by a bunch of people who have no interest in the competition voting for Israel as a purely political statement. Since there were 25 competing songs to vote for it's relatively easy to stitch up the vote for a country, and much more difficult to stitch it up against them. Opinion polls across much of the world including Britain and most of Europe strongly suggest that Israel's ongoing behaviour doesn't enjoy a huge level og popular support.
As to the UK's entry, it wasn't a great song, but suggesting that he's a weak vocal performer is a pretty extraordinary claim. The public vote returned absolute trash year after year without us achieving much success, where the BBC have almost won it.
DanNCL
Established Member
I seem to recall that the Moroccan entry was in a year where Israel were absent, and that it wasn’t coincidental that that was the year Morocco chose to participate.
As for the voting. There was a lot of people boycotting the contest, viewing figures when released will be interesting but almost certainly lower than previous years. The result however is fewer ‘anti-Israel’ votes.
On the other hand the Israeli government ran a strong campaign to encourage people across the world to vote for them. They even took out an ad on a digital billboard in Times Square. Also, the pro-Israel vote all went to the same place, whereas the anti-Israel vote was split.
Bantamzen
Established Member
Honestly reading online about all this fluff and nonsense about a low quality singing contest just makes me fear for humanity. The fact that the Israeli singer was booed and had to have an armed escort just shows how utterly warped humanity is becoming. Did she authorise the use of lethal force in Gaza? No. Has she committed to wiping Gaza off the face of the planet? No. Her crime then? Being from Israel. Can you imagine the response if a signer from Gaza or the West Bank was invited and booed at? Yet their government is as equally committed to violence and murder as the Israeli government.
All this stupid virtue signalling needs to stop, because none of it makes a blind bit of difference. In the conflict in Gaza both governments are equally responsible, but their people are not, at least the ones not taking up arms. So everyone should stop taking it out on their people, its stupid and childish, and it makes me really angry.
All this stupid virtue signalling needs to stop, because none of it makes a blind bit of difference. In the conflict in Gaza both governments are equally responsible, but their people are not, at least the ones not taking up arms. So everyone should stop taking it out on their people, its stupid and childish, and it makes me really angry.
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Snow1964
Established Member
Agree, it was weak, his clothing was dreadful, more like dirty torn dishcloth than anything memorable.
Lots of the top results had just the singers, those that added part dressed dancers didn't really do that well. And if throw in lots of confusing camera angles to distract from the song as UK did, no surprise public gave zero votes.
(Warning: heavily political and controversial post, but I suppose this particular contest has been dominated by politics so why not...)
Firstly, it wasn't a great song, but the same would apply to about half the others, too. Something must have been causing the UK to do particularly badly in the public vote compared to the other also-rans, and we actually did reasonably well - mid-table - in the jury vote.
I do wonder (given this was the public vote and not the jury one) whether this reflects what the rest of Europe, and indeed the world in general, thinks of the UK. This happens time and time again, almost every year - the UK always does worse in the public vote than jury vote, which has to (theoretically) be objective. True, the UK songs are rarely that good - but as I said, the same applies to many other participants, too.
I do wonder whether the UK, rightly or wrongly, now has an international image of being a mildly-xenophobic and distinctly, shall we say, "uncool" country. A country you wouldn't be seen dead voting for.
Eurovision is just Eurovision, but if we want good international relations, this is a serious point. I personally don't feel particularly happy being a citizen of a country with such a reputation. While other European countries also have xenophobic leaders (Meloni for example) these are likely to be temporary and such countries do not have an image of institutional xenophobia. With both Brexit and "stop the boats" it seems to me that the UK establishment is putting out a persistent low-level anti-foreigner message to both the rest of Europe and the world in general. But of course the whole thing seemed to start much earlier than that, particularly with the Iraq war. The point at which the UK really started to develop a poor international reputation seemed to be during the 2001 foot-and-mouth crisis when other parts of Europe blamed us for poor-quality hygiene in our farms - and only got (very much) worse with our support of Bush and the Iraq war. Strangely, this was about the time we started doing badly in Eurovision. The UK seems to always want to do "its own thing" and doesn't seem to buy into the spirit of international collaboration and understanding.
Now, actually, I don't think UK citizens are any more or less xenophobic than citizens of any other western country (bolded for avoidance of doubt). The difference is that here, the Government listen to xenophobes rather than argue with them as likely happens in many other countries.
Likewise, the UK establishment don't really want to engage with Eurovision (even though much of the UK population does) and consequently, time and again, put out unexceptional songs.
Back to the music, and I'd agree Switzerland was one of the strongest songs, as was Croatia. I'm surprised "windows95man" for Finland didn't do better on novelty value, though....
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richa2002
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You're simply projecting your own prejudices of the UK onto the whole of Europe.
Sorry, but out of the whole of Europe, the UK is arguably one of the least xenophobic/racist/whatever word you want to use whose meaning has been totally diluted over the past decade or two. Just look at the amount of inter-race marriages we have compared compared to Europe. Polls consistently show us as more tolerant to foreigners too. I honestly don't know what you're basing it on that you think we are less tolerant than continental European nations, everything points to the contrary.
We've been semi-regularly getting nil points for at least two decades plus now, long before Brexit made some people go into meltdown about what a terrible nation we are for wanting to govern ourselves. Despite what many people think, being part of an undemocratic political union has very little to do with tolerance/liking towards foreigners and much more to do with brute, authoritarian, unaccountable power.
Back to Eurovision. I used to enjoy it as a bit of fun and to enjoy the individual cultures of each nation in a silly way. The fun seems to have mostly left the building though and been replaced with song after song that sounds identical, repetitive and unimaginative. What started off as something quite wholesome seems to have descended into some kind of demonic ritual. Some of the performances last night were frankly grotesque. I remember when Eurovision used to be the kind of thing you'd be happy to watch with children...!
It's not prejudice, it's rational criticism. If we wish to improve as a nation, we have to critique ourselves and recognise our weaknesses.
Note that I said:
It's about the image, put out by our international representatives (i.e. our Government), rather than the actuality. For those who have never visited a given country, image is everything.
As I also said in my post, I believe it started with other events back in the 00s which harmed our international reputation, primarily the Iraq war.
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Disagree absolutely. If you wrap yourself in the national flag, (and there was plenty 'in your face' waving blue on white star of Davids in the frequently shown green room), then you are a representative of the nation that had that flag. Israel claims to be a democracy, therefore its electorate gets what it votes for.
Bantamzen
Established Member
I'm sorry that is utter nonsense. Its a singing contest no more no less, I seem to remember in the days when I watched the show that most contestants waived their national flag, it was all just part of the show. But now Israelis do it and its "in your face". It makes me laugh when I read reports gushing about how tolerant the event is, and how love reigns over everything, except the Israeli contestant of course... Utter, complete nonsense...
What may not have helped here was that unfounded allegations were made against the Greek artist.
She yawned at the same time the Israeli artist (who, for avoidance of doubt, should NOT have been excluded IMV) was having an interview. Probably just because she was tired, rather than anything else.
Yet you get the "Sun" calling her a "brat". Nice. The UK gutter media to a tee.
And that is the problem. As I said, rightly or wrongly the UK just isn't perceived by the rest of Europe as a particularly tolerant or welcoming country. Not because we actually are xenophobes (I want to make that very clear), but rather because our Government puts out a constant message of low-level xenophobia and unfriendliness to foreigners, whether from within or outside Europe. And, as I said above, this has to change; Eurovision isn't important in the scheme of things but it is a representation of a deeper and more serious problem which the UK has to be honest about and recognise it has, rather than denying it and/or covering it up in delusions of grandeur. We are no USA, no China, and never will be. We are just an average mid-table country.
I do agree the song was a bit bland, but then again so were a lot of the others. Something must be making people disfavour the UK entry more than all the other bland songs; and presumably that thing is politics.
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deltic
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Not sure the average person voting in Eurovision over the last couple of decades has much interest in politics and probably has virtually no knowledge of UK government policies. It would however be useful to know what the demographic of voters actually is. I imagined it's biased towards under 30s.
Falcon1200
Established Member
But at least the tactical voting would be interesting!
Regarding the UK entry, I read somewhere that the staging was meant to represent a spaceship heading for a black hole; It looked more like dilapidated municipal lavatory to me. Compared to what some, many, of the other countries managed, it was pathetic.