Ex LNER (and Grand Central) Mark 4 sets for TfW

[sd0733]

Another false start for HD06. Just the 3 out again today.

Yes, not sure what's going on with that one. Certainly doesn't seem to want to leave the depot.

If its ready later, I'd guess HD07 will swap from the 16:49 Manchester to the 17:14 Holyhead then at least they're in place for tomorrow but time Will tell!

 

[Welshguy1048]

Yes, not sure what's going on with that one. Certainly doesn't seem to want to leave the depot.

If its ready later, I'd guess HD07 will swap from the 16:49 Manchester to the 17:14 Holyhead then at least they're in place for tomorrow but time Will tell!

@sd0733

Morning

Is 67020 still due to head to Holyhead today?

Dave

 

[sd0733]

@sd0733

Morning

Is 67020 still due to head to Holyhead today?

Dave

Not 100% sure but Looks to be more likely tomorrow now with it then heading to Crewe with HD05 on Thursday. Its currently out on a light engine test run to Stafford and back.

HD02 should enter service tomorrow as a 5 car on 08:49 from Cardiff, 04:54 from Crewe is down to be a unit, HD07 will as predicted swap to 17:14 Holyhead tonight to balance that.

Troublesome HD06 is now planned for a test run tomorrow, taking what was supposed to be HD04s test, it will then (if successful) run ecs Crewe to Canton on Thursday to make way for HD05s arrival.

 

[Welshguy1048]

Not 100% sure but Looks to be more likely tomorrow now with it then heading to Crewe with HD05 on Thursday. Its currently out on a light engine test run to Stafford and back.

HD02 should enter service tomorrow as a 5 car on 08:49 from Cardiff, 04:54 from Crewe is down to be a unit, HD07 will as predicted swap to 17:14 Holyhead tonight to balance that.

Troublesome HD06 is now planned for a test run tomorrow, taking what was supposed to be HD04s test, it will then (if successful) run ecs Crewe to Canton on Thursday to make way for HD05s arrival.

@sd0733

Thank you for the update

Appreciate it

Dave

 

[jamiearmley]

Yes, not sure what's going on with that one. Certainly doesn't seem to want to leave the depot.

If its ready later, I'd guess HD07 will swap from the 16:49 Manchester to the 17:14 Holyhead then at least they're in place for tomorrow but time Will tell!

Well that's certainly happened. The 16.49 is indeed a 197.

Standard premium looks pretty, but that's where it ends. My back hurts, my ears hurt, and I am sick of being banged and rattled about.

Used my decibel meter app to discover that the average at full pelt on the 150 which took me to Swansea was 84Db, whilst the average on this 197 is 85.8Db.(mostly due to bangs and rattles).

Anyone who prefers a 197 over a mark 4 needs to have a chat with themselves !

 

[BillStampy]

Seems set reliability has improved once again, based off of current allocations and nothing messing up during the week, what should be on 1V70 on Sunday? (if it is possible to predict)

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Seems set reliability has improved once again, based off of current allocations and nothing messing up during the week, what should be on 1V70 on Sunday? (if it is possible to predict)

Generally too early in the week to be thinking about Sunday! But considering the reliability of the sets so far it should produce one!

 

[sd0733]

Anyone who prefers a 197 over a mark 4 needs to have a chat with themselves !

Personally I'd agree, although the interior in my opinion looks decent, the whole things are let down by the woeful ride, particularly over the bogies.

what should be on 1V70 on Sunday? (if it is possible to predict)

Almost impossible to know at this point,
HD01 looks likely to be stopped for an exam over the weekend and one of HD02 or HD06 will spend the weekend in Holyhead too but still should be enough sets around for the Sunday diagrams.

 

[jamiearmley]

Personally I'd agree, although the interior in my opinion looks decent, the whole things are let down by the woeful ride, particularly over the bogies.

The interior really does look good. I work on 195s pretty much every shift, and the interior on the 197 beats it hands down. Most specs on the 197 seem better than the 195, but I think if anything the ride quality is actually worse

I would have happily took a 150 instead.

 

[BillStampy]

Almost impossible to know at this point,
HD01 looks likely to be stopped for an exam over the weekend and one of HD02 or HD06 will spend the weekend in Holyhead too but still should be enough sets around for the Sunday diagrams.

Well good to know there should be enough for Sunday, even if I don't know which one. Great help, cheers mate!

 

[Topological]

The interior really does look good. I work on 195s pretty much every shift, and the interior on the 197 beats it hands down. Most specs on the 197 seem better than the 195, but I think if anything the ride quality is actually worse

I would have happily took a 150 instead.

You can have the 150.

For those of us who use the line regularly, the 197s are a massive improvement on the 150. The 175s were nice, but in theory we get more capacity from the 197s in the end.

The Mk4 are nice, but they are not reliable and have severed the service at Cardiff with the associated negative effects of extra terminators in Cardiff, a station really not set up for terminators.

I think anyone would like a Mk4 if it was reliable and went where they wanted to go. The reality is documented in this thread and is very much still a "will the Mk4 show up?"

 

[Lurcheroo]

Anyone who prefers a 197 over a mark 4 needs to have a chat with themselves !

I think you need to have a chat with yourself if you would prefer a 150!

The 197’s are far better insulated to sound than 150’s as would be expected of a modern DMU compared to one that’s 40years old.
I would question how accurate a decibel metre on a phone is.
Not to mention it’s not exactly a controlled test environment if there’s other passengers about.

I’ve ‘defended’ the 197’s and MK4’s on here a lot, but I really do wish the ride quality was better on the 197’s.
But here we are.

 

[jamiearmley]

I think you need to have a chat with yourself if you would prefer a 150!

The 197’s are far better insulated to sound than 150’s as would be expected of a modern DMU compared to one that’s 40years old.
I would question how accurate a decibel metre on a phone is.
Not to mention it’s not exactly a controlled test environment if there’s other passengers about.

I’ve ‘defended’ the 197’s and MK4’s on here a lot, but I really do wish the ride quality was better on the 197’s.
But here we are.

I completely agree, a decimal meter on a phone is a very unreliable thing.

However, I would expect it to be consistently unreliable -so when I use it to take two measurements, one on a class 150 and one on a class 197 within an hour of each other. I would expect the readings to have value in terms of comparison between them even if the actual readings themselves are not accurate in terms of the figures they present.

I can't argue with any of the statements you've made above- but in relation to the very sensible point that you have made that you would expect a 40-year-old dmu to have far worse sound insulation than a modern dmu, you would also expect a 40-year-old dmu to have worse suspension and a worse ride quality than a modern version- and sadly we know this is not the case.

Does that sort of make sense how I have explained it? It only barely makes sense to me if I'm honest...

 

[Anonymous10]

I completely agree, a decimal meter on a phone is a very unreliable thing.

However, I would expect it to be consistently unreliable -so when I use it to take two measurements, one on a class 150 and one on a class 197 within an hour of each other. I would expect the readings to have value in terms of comparison between them even if the actual readings themselves are not accurate in terms of the figures they present.

I can't argue with any of the statements you've made above- but in relation to the very sensible point that you have made that you would expect a 40-year-old dmu to have far worse sound insulation than a modern dmu, you would also expect a 40-year-old dmu to have worse suspension and a worse ride quality than a modern version- and sadly we know this is not the case.

Does that sort of make sense how I have explained it? It only barely makes sense to me if I'm honest...

However I will mention that when measuring these sorts of things taking 3 on each and taking an average or the median would be far more consistent.

 

[Lurcheroo]

I completely agree, a decimal meter on a phone is a very unreliable thing.

However, I would expect it to be consistently unreliable -so when I use it to take two measurements, one on a class 150 and one on a class 197 within an hour of each other. I would expect the readings to have value in terms of comparison between them even if the actual readings themselves are not accurate in terms of the figures they present.

I can't argue with any of the statements you've made above- but in relation to the very sensible point that you have made that you would expect a 40-year-old dmu to have far worse sound insulation than a modern dmu, you would also expect a 40-year-old dmu to have worse suspension and a worse ride quality than a modern version- and sadly we know this is not the case.

Does that sort of make sense how I have explained it? It only barely makes sense to me if I'm honest...

However I will mention that when measuring these sorts of things taking 3 on each and taking an average or the median would be far more consistent.

The issue doesn’t necessarily come down to the ‘accuracy’ of the reading, because as you say, you’re not particularly worried about the actual reading just the difference between the two. But more the reliability of the device to accurately give consistent readings for the same sounds.
With a phone not being designed, tested or calibrated for it, coming from Electrical engineering before I Joined the railway, I wouldn’t trust it.
It certainly doesn’t match my experience on both 150’s and 197’s.

With that, doing multiple readings and taking an average is also not likely to help unless the device is proved to be consistent.

As for the suspension, I agree, you really would. I can not get my head around it to be honest!

 

[Richard Scott]

The issue doesn’t necessarily come down to the ‘accuracy’ of the reading, because as you say, you’re not particularly worried about the actual reading just the difference between the two. But more the reliability of the device to accurately give consistent readings for the same sounds.
With a phone not being designed, tested or calibrated for it, coming from Electrical engineering before I Joined the railway, I wouldn’t trust it.
It certainly doesn’t match my experience on both 150’s and 197’s.

With that, doing multiple readings and taking an average is also not likely to help unless the device is proved to be consistent.

As for the suspension, I agree, you really would. I can not get my head around it to be honest!

Somewhat off topic but decibel scale is logarithmic making comparisons and taking averages a little more challenging.

 

[Lurcheroo]

Somewhat off topic but decibel scale is logarithmic making comparisons and taking averages a little more challenging.

Of course it is! It was late and I was just getting ready for bed and it passed me by.

I suppose, if one was dedicated enough to purchase a proper sound meter and obtain worthwhile Data for the different trains then, calculating a logarithmic mean should be within the scope of what they want to do. You can do it in excel without too much fuss if I remember correctly.

To bring this back to Topic though, looks like 3 MK4’s out today with a 3 car 197 on each of the other two diagrams.

 

[sd0733]

To bring this back to Topic though, looks like 3 MK4’s out today with a 3 car 197 on each of the other two diagrams.

HD02 wasn't put out and HD06 doesn't appear to be fixed either as the test path taken by 67008 running light engine as 0Z08 instead.

Added to below...

Everything has shuffled backwards, HD02 now having another go at going into service tomorrow on the 08:49 from Cardiff, HD06 is now planned for a test run tomorrow from Crewe ATC to Crewe ETD for tyre turning via Chester, HD04 will then head there for the same on Friday.

Path for Hd06 https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:69745/2024-05-02/detailed

With all this dropping backwards, the planned move of 67020 to collect HD05 is now postponed too, into next week now.

As long as HD02 makes it off Canton tomorrow there should be the 4 diagrams (minus the first Crewe to Cardiff) using HD01,02,03,07. HD01 then stops on Friday night for an exam but hopefully will be replaced by HD06 enabling all the weekend diagrams to run.

Edit:
HD02 looks as if its not coming off again today.

Now planned to come into service on 12:49 from Cardiff tomorrow (Fri 3rd).

 

[BillStampy]

Now that's it's closer to Sunday, I'm predicting HD02 is meant to be on 1V70? I'm mainly guessing and would love a confirmation.

HD02 really doesn't want to come out of Canton at the moment though!

 

[sd0733]

Now that's it's closer to Sunday, I'm predicting HD02 is meant to be on 1V70? I'm mainly guessing and would love a confirmation.

Planned to be yes, but that does rely on getting it off Canton on both Friday and Saturday!

 

[Lurcheroo]

3 sets out today plus a 3 car and 4 car 197 covering the rest.

 

[sd0733]

3 sets out today plus a 3 car and 4 car 197 covering the rest.

Finally including HD02 too at the fifth time of asking, first day in service since late February for that one.

HD06 is now back at Crewe ATC from tyre turning and is pencilled in for a return to service on 06:27 from Manchester tomorrow.

 

[BillStampy]

Finally including HD02 too at the fifth time of asking, first day in service since late February for that one.

HD06 is now back at Crewe ATC from tyre turning and is pencilled in for a return to service on 06:27 from Manchester tomorrow.

Good to hear HD02 is back. Especially if it's meant to be my Sunday set!

HD06 has been a troublesome set recently, hopefully it won't have as many issues when it returns!

 

[JakeMurphy]

Hello, just to collect info for some friends, could I get a list of what is expected out tomorrow please? Thanks alot.

 

[sd0733]

Hello, just to collect info for some friends, could I get a list of what is expected out tomorrow please? Thanks alot.

If it all goes to plan should be the regular 3 Saturday diagrams:

67025+HD02
05:30 Swansea to Manchester Pic
10:30 Manchester Pic to Cardiff
16:50 Cardiff to Manchester Pic

67012+HD03
04:54 Crewe to Cardiff
14:53 Cardiff to Manchester Pic
18:30 Manchester Pic to Cardiff

Was 67013+HD06 but now expected Unit
06:27 Manchester Pic to Cardiff
10:52 Cardiff to Manchester Pic
14:30 Manchester Pic to Cardiff
18:55 Cardiff to Manchester Pic

Unit
(Ironically, this diagram has gone back to a Mk4 tomorrow officially but is a planned swap tomorrow)
04:25 Cardiff to Manchester Pic
08:30 Manchester Pic to Cardiff
12:52 Cardiff to Manchester Pic
16:30 Manchester Pic to Swansea

Sunday should have HD02 on the Crewe Diagram and HD03 on the Cardiff.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

If it all goes to plan should be the regular 3 Saturday diagrams:

67025+HD02
05:30 Swansea to Manchester Pic
10:30 Manchester Pic to Cardiff
16:50 Cardiff to Manchester Pic

67012+HD03
04:54 Crewe to Cardiff
14:53 Cardiff to Manchester Pic
18:30 Manchester Pic to Cardiff

67013+HD06
06:27 Manchester Pic to Cardiff
10:52 Cardiff to Manchester Pic
14:30 Manchester Pic to Cardiff
18:55 Cardiff to Manchester Pic

Unit
(Ironically, this diagram has gone back to a Mk4 tomorrow officially but is a planned swap tomorrow)
04:25 Cardiff to Manchester Pic
08:30 Manchester Pic to Cardiff
12:52 Cardiff to Manchester Pic
16:30 Manchester Pic to Swansea

Sunday should have HD02 on the Crewe Diagram and HD03 on the Cardiff.

HD02/03/06/07 are then planned to cover the 4 diagrams at the start of next week.

You are aware that tomorrow is Friday, right? As the person you are replying to asked for

 

[sd0733]

You are aware that tomorrow is Friday, right? As the person you are replying to asked for

I'm confused now! Unless I've really lost the plot its Friday today so Saturday tomorrow

 

[SuperLuke2334]

I'm confused now! Unless I've really lost the plot its Friday today so Saturday tomorrow

Oh no its absolutely me! I'm having a mare today! Apologies mate!

 

[BillStampy]

Seems HD02 didn't last! Cancelled from Abergavenny. What's the issue with it?

 

[MP393]

Seems HD02 didn't last! Cancelled from Abergavenny. What's the issue with it?

A door fault, so running empty to Canton now as 5V50. Not the best re-entry into service! Fingers crossed it can be looked at on Canton, and that HD06 comes off Crewe tomorrow. Bank Holiday weekend sure does mean the capacity is needed!