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Fantasy DMU

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sprinterguy

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Class 172s' suggestion for a DMU version of the 442 has reminded me of one of my more fanciful notions for the Crosscountry network, presuming that if we have to be stuck with underfloor engine DMUs on XC then there should be better alternatives than the current Voyagers: Perhaps, if BR in the late eighties had been experiencing the same levels of passenger growth as we have now, then they wouldn't have gone down the line of life extending a number of class 47s through conversion to 47/8s, or the conversion of a number of mark 2 vehicles to RFB vehicles, but instead there would have been a new build of "Class 244s"; a diesel variant of the class 442 Wessex units.

This would consist of a fleet of 28 seven carriage units and 36 five car units, which roughly works out with a slight increase in fleet size so that in general the seven carriage units would replace the HSTs and the five car units would replace the 47+mark 2 rakes, as well as Crosscountrys' one time small pool of 158s.

The seven carriage units would be formed:
DMF - MBRFB - MS(W) - TS - MS - MS(W) - DMS

And the five car units would be formed:
DMF - MBRSB - TS(W) - MS - DMS

The motor carriages would each be powered by a 750hp engine, giving 4000hp in the seven car sets (A bit of a reduction on the power of the HSTs, but without the weight of the power cars to consider), and 3000hp in the five car sets (More than a 47). (W) marks those carriages fitted with a disabled toilet.

Some rough figures give the seating capacities as:
Seven car sets: 64 first class, 370 standard class. (Against 48 first class and 402 standard class in a 2+7 HST formation).
Five car sets: 50 first class, 250 standard class. (Against 68 first class and 288 standard in a 7 car mark 2 formation).

As far as I know, BR in the late eighties/early nineties had no plans to accelerate the Crosscountry service, I think the biggest improvement that was expected was to be the cascade of mark 3s from the West Coast to replace the mark 2s as a benefit of the Intercity 250 project, so the 100mph maximum speed and end corridors would be just fine.

These units, particularly in their five car form, would also be ideal for deployment on inter-regional routes that saw 158 operation in the early nineties, such as Liverpool to Norwich, Waterloo to Salisbury and Exeter (I assume that Regional Railways wouldn't have had twenty two surplus 158s to send to NSE had BR been in a growth period: The 244s would also have matched the 442s which share the same route as far as Basingstoke), Transpennine North and Edinburgh/Glasgow to Aberdeen/Inverness. This would displace a sufficient number of 158s to ensure that Edinburghs' 117s and Manchesters' 101s would have been replaced far earlier than proved to be the case, through the cascade of Sprinter stock.
 
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starrymarkb

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Whatever you do, better soundproofing please. A noisy engine chugging away under the floor detracts from the rail travel experience somewhat IMO.

800px-Austin_Metrorail.jpg


This might be a solution to that problem...
 

Class172

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These units, particularly in their five car form, would also be ideal for deployment on inter-regional routes that saw 158 operation in the early nineties, such as Liverpool to Norwich, Waterloo to Salisbury and Exeter (I assume that Regional Railways wouldn't have had twenty two surplus 158s to send to NSE had BR been in a growth period: The 244s would also have matched the 442s which share the same route as far as Basingstoke), Transpennine North and Edinburgh/Glasgow to Aberdeen/Inverness. This would displace a sufficient number of 158s to ensure that Edinburghs' 117s and Manchesters' 101s would have been replaced far earlier than proved to be the case, through the cascade of Sprinter stock.
Exactly the sort of routes my MUs would go on; maybe this would mean that the 180s would never need to be built? 8-)
 

starrymarkb

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Network South East were actually looking at something like a 166 with the layout of a 175/444 which may have been classed as 171... The spare 158s meant they got rid of the 50s/47s quicker then they otherwise would have. Given the long single track sections on the Waterloo to Exeter route a broken down locomotive would stuff the service completely
 

route:oxford

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5-car DMUs? But that would mean carting around lots of empty space for most of the day on most routes. The rail industry needs to think about the amount of energy it uses per passenger - 150 tons of metal to carry a dozen passengers is hardly "green". Better to have the flexibility to combine smaller units when required.

A 5-car unit *is* a small unit on many services.

A 6-car unit made up of 3 2-car units will lose approximately one whole carriage worth of space to an excess of DDA loos and wheelchair zones, crash safety features, catering trolley storage zones, secondary cab-door vestibules, not to mention dragging round 4 cabs worth of space and equipment.
 

Welshman

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5-car DMUs? But that would mean carting around lots of empty space for most of the day on most routes. The rail industry needs to think about the amount of energy it uses per passenger - 150 tons of metal to carry a dozen passengers is hardly "green". Better to have the flexibility to combine smaller units when required.

But the industry also has to bear in mind these new units will be around for the next 30 years or so, and what will demand be like in 2030s?

The 2nd gen. 2-car units built in the 1970s may have been sufficient then, but now they are over-crowded on many routes, even during off-peak times.
Let's learn from the mistakes of the past, and prepare for even more growth as petrol prices increase and roads become even more clogged.

I know units can be doubled-up at busier times, but where are the "spare" units to allow that to happen now?
 

Class172

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A 5/6 car unit may not be utilised fully now but it accommodates for future growth as well as having less wasted space for cabs, disabled toilets etc.
 

ChrisCooper

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Considering that any new DMU build should be for inter-regional or rural workings rarther than commuter work, longer trains is probably better. Commuter work tends to be where trains are packed at peak times and then carry fresh air off peak, but other services tend to be more even.

My personal idea for a regional DMU would be a 4, 5 or 6 car DEMU with above floor engines in one of both driving coaches. These would be compact to take up as little space as possible behind the driver. Space would be saved on the rest of the train because other equipment could go under the floor instead of being in the passenger area, and it would give a nicer environment, and the floor could be lower making accessibility easier. I don't see the need for distributed power, they won't be doing stop-start work so there is no advantage. Optional overhead and/or third rail pickup, with conversion as simple as sticking shoe gear on the power bogies or a pantograph and transformer/rectifier on one coach (like modern DC units it would have a pantograph well and transformer mountings). Windows would be like those on the Mk2s, including different sizes for first and second class so tables line up with windows. Seating, like most others I'd go for something based on the IC70 but with movable armrests (IMHO the only serious flaw of the design). Oh, there would be two varients, one a 100mph version with a fairly flat front, the other would be a steamlined 125mph version (the latter being only in 6 car bi or tri mode, infact the 125mph top speed would probably only really be achievable on 25kV anyway).
 
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