RJ
Established Member
Undoubtedly so given the circumstances. What person with an ounce of sense plays the guidelines as their trump card against staff, when they haven't adhered to the guidelines themselves?
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Had problems taking pictures of the railways?
- Thread starter Snapper
- Start date
Undoubtedly so given the circumstances. What person with an ounce of sense plays the guidelines as their trump card against staff, when they haven't adhered to the guidelines themselves?
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RJ
Established Member
What station was what?
Harry Douthwaite
Member
I had a little trouble filming a train, a Class 317 was inbound at Broxbourne for Hertford East, so while waiting for it, I had a little walk around the station with my trusty Canon Camcorder, then I hear the following...
"Hello! You're not actually allowed to film on the station, you have to turn it off!" So I turned it off, and said: "Well, I've never heard of that before." Then he said: "Turn it off!" Even though it was already off and I had the lens cap back on. But I didn't bother to argue as I had to run for my train. (August 26th 2006 at around 3:45pm)
The above is a direct quote from my trainspotting experience in England on my six week summer visit!
"Hello! You're not actually allowed to film on the station, you have to turn it off!" So I turned it off, and said: "Well, I've never heard of that before." Then he said: "Turn it off!" Even though it was already off and I had the lens cap back on. But I didn't bother to argue as I had to run for my train. (August 26th 2006 at around 3:45pm)
The above is a direct quote from my trainspotting experience in England on my six week summer visit!
Nick279
Member
British railways use to encourage rail enthusiasts, train spotters in those days, and although I’ve had a few photographic problems in Cyprus, Spain and Bulgaria on the railways, it’s only since privatisation that I have had a few issues in the UK. What I now do is carry a copy of the UK photographic laws (2 sheets), and the BTP guidelines (2 pages) and hand these to anyone who questions me, I think I have been pulled up 3 times in total and sent them all packing with their tails between their legs, unfortunately I don’t suffer fools and don’t really see why I should have to tell railway staff about their own guidelines and regulations, I do however always sign in at railway stations, I think its only fair to do so in this present climate, I don’t however adhere to the private property thinking, the TOCs are guardians of the British Railway network this is however a public semi privatised rail system, which was support financially for many years by the people of this country and I’m a firm believer in shared responsibility for the network and will support those who control the network in anyway I can, I’ve certainly supported them financially for the last 5 decades.
The most serious incident I had was a few years ago on Merseyrail, I was approached by two chaps who without showing any form of identification or wearing a proper uniform told me that I was not allowed to take photographs of station and that they had the power to confiscate my photography equipment, I produced my press pass and they backed off, I was however so annoyed about this incident that I emailed a number of MPs in the Merseyside catchment, I wrote to the rail watchdog and Mersey rail, the people who approached me didn’t have the sense to realise that I had actually photographed them on their approach and I emailed these photographs to all the people I had contacted and an inquest was held, apparently these people were employed by Merseyrail under contract with a company called Carlisle Securities, I wrote to the MD and was ignored, but Merseyrail forced Carlisle to take statements from these so called officers, who basically made false statements, I again wrote to all concerned parties and prepared a press statement on how this city of culture was behaving with civil liberties and deviant action by employing cheap untrained contract workers to take care of a public transport system and how this would have an effect on local tourism if I went live. I receive an apology and Merseyrail changed their policy at the next board meeting.
Sadly this sort of thing goes on far too frequently these days and we need to make a stand against it, it really is the edge of a very slippery slope, many people have given their lives for the very freedoms we now take for granted, never allow anyone to try and take those freedoms away from you. Sadly many security staff are not really noted for high academic levels of intelligence, they cant of course be blamed for this and I’m sure most do their best to keep the public safe, in the main though, the problem appears to lie with the level of training these people receive, we must always support these people of course but at times we may also need to educate them. Mass paranoia is no excuse for a loss of civil liberties
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
this site may be useful to help explain the new anti-terrorist laws and the powers that the police actually have.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/security/terrorism-and-the-law/?version=1
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
heres the police independant complaint site
http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/
The most serious incident I had was a few years ago on Merseyrail, I was approached by two chaps who without showing any form of identification or wearing a proper uniform told me that I was not allowed to take photographs of station and that they had the power to confiscate my photography equipment, I produced my press pass and they backed off, I was however so annoyed about this incident that I emailed a number of MPs in the Merseyside catchment, I wrote to the rail watchdog and Mersey rail, the people who approached me didn’t have the sense to realise that I had actually photographed them on their approach and I emailed these photographs to all the people I had contacted and an inquest was held, apparently these people were employed by Merseyrail under contract with a company called Carlisle Securities, I wrote to the MD and was ignored, but Merseyrail forced Carlisle to take statements from these so called officers, who basically made false statements, I again wrote to all concerned parties and prepared a press statement on how this city of culture was behaving with civil liberties and deviant action by employing cheap untrained contract workers to take care of a public transport system and how this would have an effect on local tourism if I went live. I receive an apology and Merseyrail changed their policy at the next board meeting.
Sadly this sort of thing goes on far too frequently these days and we need to make a stand against it, it really is the edge of a very slippery slope, many people have given their lives for the very freedoms we now take for granted, never allow anyone to try and take those freedoms away from you. Sadly many security staff are not really noted for high academic levels of intelligence, they cant of course be blamed for this and I’m sure most do their best to keep the public safe, in the main though, the problem appears to lie with the level of training these people receive, we must always support these people of course but at times we may also need to educate them. Mass paranoia is no excuse for a loss of civil liberties
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
this site may be useful to help explain the new anti-terrorist laws and the powers that the police actually have.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/security/terrorism-and-the-law/?version=1
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
heres the police independant complaint site
http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/
Nick279
Member
all these incidents need reporting, collectively the rail enthusiast market makes a significant controbution towards rail network revenue
Harry Douthwaite
Member
Well, I'm going to stow my case. Ignore it for the time being, but if anybody does it again, then I'll report it.
Nick279
Member
do you have a photograph of this sign, I`ve never seen it myself, but obviously this is incorrect and a deviance in relation to the network rails guidlines, it would also be erronous and misleading, I`ll look out for this sign the next time i`m down there and have the legality of this signage checked by my solicitors, the wording "trainspotting is prohibited." would be illegal in relation public rights and the democracy of this country, unless however it had other wording on the signage, like in this areas or private property, it is of course a criminal offence to tresspass on the railway and rightly so, but no one has the powers to stop you partaking in a legal activity in a public access area. Can you email me a photograph of this signage?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
OK Harry fair enough, but remember harressment is a criminal offence, something some people appear to be doing a lot of in recent years, we need to make a stand against this sort of thing and make examples of these people, these are our uappropriately and that staff who take up positions are public servants, do so in a professional manner, the deviant ones need weeding out and either educating or removing, the professional ones should have our support, always remember these people work for us..
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
OK Harry fair enough, but remember harressment is a criminal offence, something some people appear to be doing a lot of in recent years, we need to make a stand against this sort of thing and make examples of these people, these are our uappropriately and that staff who take up positions are public servants, do so in a professional manner, the deviant ones need weeding out and either educating or removing, the professional ones should have our support, always remember these people work for us..
Nick279
Member
cheers mate
16CSVT2700
Established Member
Yesterday I was doing some photos from Cholsey Manor Farm bridge minding my own business when I started being harassed by an individual who kept trying to get into my photos.
Lucky I got a phot of him before he scarpered:
Lucky I got a phot of him before he scarpered:
Nick279
Member
ah a Chaffinch, nice photograph mate, i hope you asked his permission first
I just got off the train at Southall today and there was a fast approaching FGW HST so I started to film it, suddenly I saw this person coming towards me, waving. He then said taking photographs at this station is not allowed due to it being a Category B station (terrorist alert) I said I had nevr heard of this before. He said go and ask at information they will tell you. I said well I have travelled along way, he said try further up the line. I went to Maidenhead and had no problems there.
On the way I rang the deputy editor of The Railway magazine, he had been on the phone to FGW and they couldnt understand what had happened! they had never heard of such a thing! I am firing an email off to FGW.
just thought I would let you know.
Martyn
On the way I rang the deputy editor of The Railway magazine, he had been on the phone to FGW and they couldnt understand what had happened! they had never heard of such a thing! I am firing an email off to FGW.
just thought I would let you know.
Martyn
Nick279
Member
what an idiot, you should have dragged him along to the station manager or told him to call the police, its amazing how fast they back down then, on one occassion when a simliar thing happend to me, so I started phoning the police and the pratt who told me not to take photographs suddenly said "well I`ll turn a blind eye to it this time", you can imagine my reply, (where do they find these retards)? but good on you Martyn, isnt Southall home to a preservatrion centre, surely they must have experience of enthusiasts?, it had a shed for many years.
RJ
Established Member
The staff at Southall are bound to be wary with the amount of tresspassing and suicides that happen there. The railway centre isn't near the station.
Nick279
Member
I dont think someone taking pictures is planning a suicide and he certainly wasnt tresspassing if he was on the platform, nothing wrong with being wary either of course, we all have to be vigilant in these difficult times, but we still have to behave in an appropriate manner and certainly not make things up and tell lies to customers.
How far is the preservation centre away from the station, i`ve not been down there for years and whats happened to the old loco depot, is it still standing?
How far is the preservation centre away from the station, i`ve not been down there for years and whats happened to the old loco depot, is it still standing?
D306
Established Member
umm, just had a quick read of the thread title and instead of saying Had problems taking pictures it says Had problems talking pictures.
Just pointing it out
Just pointing it out
I do agree, there's a slight difference when it comes to it, a person wielding a camera, taking photos of trains whilst another looks like another passenger who then jumps, probably in front of the train the photographer wanted to get a shot of...
devon_metro
Established Member
Well that can't really do anything, staff have persmission to ask you to leave a station. Southall is a particularly bad place really as there are many suicides cocking up the rest of the SWs railways on an average day so i'd say the staff aren't the most leniant and rightly so IMHO.
Whereas I do agree with this as well Liam, I think staff can have the common sense to realise when someone is getting a phot of a train, instead of photting the underneath...
Nick279
Member
understandaly so i think you may mean, but no i`m sorry giving false information to customers is not only unprofessional and inappropriate, its also damaging to the image the railways need to portray. and staff have to give a reason why they are asking you to leave and this doesnt include telling lies i`m afraid. Look I`m sure most of us on here will support staff in the same way we support the railways, but to be honest if a staff member behaves in this manner, i`m afraid I feel this is unacceptable, this attitude only causes damage to the railways and alienates the very people who support the railways, its unacceptable.
RJ
Established Member
class313 said:
class313 said:
Distinctly naive comments - your quixotic desire to phot trains will attract attention. If it wasn't for the vigilance of railway employees, constables and so on, terrorist attacks would be more commonplace. So when railway staff approach you, you object because you feel that they should be able to tell you mean no harm. No wonder you have multiple stories to add to this thread. Perhaps you should look closer to home to see where the problem lies (particularly if you make a habit of being as close to the platform edge as possible like you were at Kings Cross).
Its not as simple as you thinking you look like a well meaning enthusiast and you know it.
Irrespective of your attempts to come up with clever responses, the simple matter of fact is that the current paranoia with regard to terrorism is directly resulting from the actions of people either not born in the UK, or from very much non-British cultures. Since, as far as I am aware there are no related threats from average looking members of "Joe Public" I think that people would be able to more carefully target their paranoia.
But I don't see how you can turn my personal opinions into an open attack against me. I'm not going to reply to that part. Though I will say I'm sure you were equally magnanimous when you were escorted off Euston Station.
David
Established Member
Pack it in you 2. :roll:
RJ
Established Member
Nick 279 said:
Not sure if you're familiar with the area or not, but Southall is notorious for people jumping in front of trains and straying onto the lines. Staff there are bound to be sensitive and its advisable that they are made aware beforehand if you are there to phot trains.
You should treat the phrase 'as far as I am aware' with caution - believe it or not there are things out there you don't know about. Terrorism related attacks have been foiled and kept quiet, and the assailants are from a variety of backgrounds - not just the selection you're thinking of based on media bias and your lack of erudition.
However, this thread isn't about debating the origins of terrorists - its about having problems at stations.
class313 said:
I've never been escorted off any station in my life. I moved of my own accord and was free to continue my business after talking to the police and the DSM. This leads me to question if you even know what you are talking about as you don't know what constitutes an escort! The same goes for your referral to my 'magnanimity' :???:
(Hint: don't use a thesaurus to find words you aren't familiar with if you don't know what context to use them in)
If you choose to do things like set your tripod up as close to the platform edge as possible where trains pass, you should expect to be approached by station staff or police. It bears no relation to what you look like, more that you can't abide by the rules...
Nick279
Member
Some people obviously have little experience of the contibution enthusiasts make toward rail security in general, many enthusiasts know more about the railways and the business than the employees themselves, even Network Rail and BR before them recognise the contribution enthusiasts make towards rail security, in my 57 years of rail travel and interest, I also have been responsible for identifying 2 cracked rails and had platforms closed down while appropriate action has taken place, I have also physically supported a guard who was experiencing difficulties with an unruley passenger who was threatening to do him serious harm, there are many more like me of course. comments of this nature appear to be based on a total lack of understanding and experience and people really need to examine the wider picture and think outside the box, these are OUR railways and we should all work together to protect them, enthusiasts and photographers are often better placed to identify and report any unusual activities on the railways, tresspass and other issues which staff, because of their work committments, may be unaware off, staff who alienate enthusiasts do so to the detriment of the railway itself and their employment in a passenger focused environment is questionable. Basically they need weeding out and getting rid off, or having an attitude replant, possibly by retraining, sadly some pepole are not suited to work in a public customer service orientated occupation. Further, many enthusiasts take an alturistic approach towards the railways, staff and safety operations, while additionally contributing significantly financially. Basically we CARE
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Not sure if you're familiar with the area or not, but Southall is notorious for people jumping in front of trains and straying onto the lines. Staff there are bound to be sensitive and its advisable that they are made aware beforehand if you are there to phot trains.
I have visited Southall on numberous occassions but many years ago when the diesel depot was in exisitance, i`m sure the place has changed considerable, the photographers guideline suggest that you report in at large/busy stations and let then know you are taking photographs, I`m not sure how this would be interpreted in the case of southall, but we must support rail staff in anyway we can of course and let them know what we are doing, whenever possible
You should treat the phrase 'as far as I am aware' with caution - believe it or not there are things out there you don't know about. Terrorism related attacks have been foiled and kept quiet, and the assailants are from a variety of backgrounds - not just the selection you're thinking of based on media bias and your lack of erudition.
exactly, even more reason for us to all work together, the enthusiast sector and the professional rail sector, we are all responible for safety and our ralways
However, this thread isn't about debating the origins of terrorists - its about having problems at stations.
yes apparently by people who should know better and welcome more support from those who care about the rail network, not just those who may have a chip on their shoulder and wish to intimidate law abiding citizens harmlessly going about their interest and hobby, and indeed in many cases acting as added security thus supplimenting the fine work done by the professionals.
I've never been escorted off any station in my life. I moved of my own accord and was free to continue my business after talking to the police and the DSM. This leads me to question if you even know what you are talking about as you don't know what constitutes an escort! The same goes for your referral to my 'magnanimity' :???:
(Hint: don't use a thesaurus to find words you aren't familiar with if you don't know what context to use them in)
If you choose to do things like set your tripod up as close to the platform edge as possible where trains pass, you should expect to be approached by station staff or police. It bears no relation to what you look like, more that you can't abide by the rules...
yes well said
Snapper
Established Member
No, they don't work for us. They work for their respective TOCs.
And whilst we should expect them to be civil and courteous to their customers* , we should be extending the same to them. Sadly this doesn't seem to be the case with some enthusiasts who just 'fly off the handle' with staff when they're just doing their job.
* of course, it's debatable if an enthusiast who just turns up on a station without a ticket and with no intention to travel is really a customer, or just a visitor.