June 2024 Timetable Change

[Melancholia]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned but GWR are running two London to Swansea services non stop from Paddington to Bristol Parkway. The services being the 16:18 and 19:18 departures from Paddington.

Two additional services will run from Paddington to Bristol Parkway to make up for the lost calls at Reading, Didcot and Swindon. These will leave Paddington before the Swansea services and will be overtaken by it at Reading.

Both of these stopping services appear to be pathed as 387s, also as both go empty to Cocklebury sidings in Swindon after arriving at Bristol Parkway.

 

[Woolos 22]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned but GWR are running two London to Swansea services non stop from Paddington to Bristol Parkway. The services being the 16:18 and 19:18 departures from Paddington.

Two additional services will run from Paddington to Bristol Parkway to make up for the lost calls at Reading, Didcot and Swindon. These will leave Paddington before the Swansea services and will be overtaken by it at Reading.

The bristol parkway train leaving Paddington at 1612 and 1912 and book for emu 387

 

[Baji]

All services between London Victoria and Epsom, Horsham and Dorking services via Hackbridge will be running with 8 or 10 coaches on Saturdays.

https://www.southernrailway.com/travel-information/plan-your-journey/timetables

 

[Bikeman78]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned but GWR are running two London to Swansea services non stop from Paddington to Bristol Parkway. The services being the 16:18 and 19:18 departures from Paddington.

Two additional services will run from Paddington to Bristol Parkway to make up for the lost calls at Reading, Didcot and Swindon. These will leave Paddington before the Swansea services and will be overtaken by it at Reading.

That will make the 19:18 a lot more appealing. It is the first super off peak and is usually very busy.

 

[PGAT]

All services between London Victoria and Epsom, Horsham and Dorking services via Hackbridge will be running with 8 or 10 coaches on Saturdays.

https://www.southernrailway.com/travel-information/plan-your-journey/timetables

Very much needed, some of the worst services I've been on have ran out of seats at Leatherhead

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Both of these non-stop services appear to be pathed as 387s, also as both go empty to Cocklebury sidings in Swindon after arriving at Bristol Parkway.

The Bristol Parkway terminators (which are pathed as 387s) are not the non-stop services, they’re the ’stopping’ trains that cover the intermediate stops dropped by the Swansea services.

 

[mangyiscute]

I've never seen a report on this forum of trains being packed south of Basingstoke.

I rarely use them south of Reading, but as someone who travels Reading to Oxford frequently, the majority of people are boarding at these two stations - trains rarely pull into Reading without empty seats, but often leave Reading with no empty seats, but rarely "full".
The issue then comes when reaching Oxford, where usually there are tonnes of people on the platform and not many alight - I think Oxford station has seen mass usage increase in the past 10-15 years, and both the London trains and the XC trains were not equipped to deal with this.
Therefore, I don't think pick up only at Oxford would work either, since the issue is not Reading to Oxford journeys, the issue is journeys north of Oxford, which makes much more sense since there are very few feasible alternatives for this journey.
The answer is more capacity and making the Reading - York's (I don't think sending them to Newcastle is necessary) hourly.

 

[jfollows]

I rarely use them south of Reading, but as someone who travels Reading to Oxford frequently, the majority of people are boarding at these two stations - trains rarely pull into Reading without empty seats, but often leave Reading with no empty seats, but rarely "full".
The issue then comes when reaching Oxford, where usually there are tonnes of people on the platform and not many alight - I think Oxford station has seen mass usage increase in the past 10-15 years, and both the London trains and the XC trains were not equipped to deal with this.
Therefore, I don't think pick up only at Oxford would work either, since the issue is not Reading to Oxford journeys, the issue is journeys north of Oxford, which makes much more sense since there are very few feasible alternatives for this journey.
The answer is more capacity and making the Reading - York's (I don't think sending them to Newcastle is necessary) hourly.

Getting on to go north at Oxford was bad in 1980, I suspect it’s always been …. often I’d go via Worcester in nicer Mark 2 stock with a 50 and fairly empty rather than jamming onto crammed Mark 1s to Banbury and beyond ……

 

[Kite159]

Oxford - Banbury was quoted pre Covid as one of the busiest parts of the XC network. It doesn't help that the only alternative is a rough 2 hourly GWR stopper.

 

[Goldfish62]

Oxford - Banbury was quoted pre Covid as one of the busiest parts of the XC network. It doesn't help that the only alternative is a rough 2 hourly GWR stopper.

And it still is. Passengers regularly left behind at certain times since most trains were reduced to single units in May.

 

[Melancholia]

The Bristol Parkway terminators (which are pathed as 387s) are not the non-stop services, they’re the ’stopping’ trains that cover the intermediate stops dropped by the Swansea services.

That's right, apologies! My mind was thinking stopping, but non-stop has somehow made it into the post

 

[nw1]

The bristol parkway train leaving Paddington at 1612 and 1912 and book for emu 387

Interesting they are just before and just after the peak. Is there already a 1712 and 1812?

Oxford - Banbury was quoted pre Covid as one of the busiest parts of the XC network. It doesn't help that the only alternative is a rough 2 hourly GWR stopper.

I often attempted to completely avoid XC when travelling north. It was almost possible except the Oxford-Banbury stretch, though using the Reading-originating XC services helped a great deal (leaving them at Banbury for a Chiltern when they started getting busy).

Getting on to go north at Oxford was bad in 1980, I suspect it’s always been …. often I’d go via Worcester in nicer Mark 2 stock with a 50 and fairly empty rather than jamming onto crammed Mark 1s to Banbury and beyond ……

Interesting as I used XC a few times through Oxford from late 1982 to late 1984 and they never seemed ridiculously busy. Well-loaded, yes, but never uncomfortably so. These were often the Portsmouth-originating services though on one occasion it was a Brighton-originator. Southbound was a mixture: a Paddington, a Portsmouth, a Brighton and an (ex-Scotland) Poole. Same in June 1990 when I used them again after quite a gap. This was mostly going north Sat morning, south on Sunday evening.

They seemed to start getting overcrowded at busy times (only) around the mid to late 90s, when still operated by classic traction - though things got much worse in the Voyager era.

My mistake. Still doesn't explain the thinking behind the XC plan. In the down direction, their train is the third in 20 minutes so unlikely to be overwhelmed by people making local journeys.

Indeed, and Southampton to Basingstoke would only be 1tph without XC. It's like a worse version of the Brockenhurst stop removal which I've discussed before on here and have not yet seen a satisfactory explanation for.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Interesting they are just before and just after the peak. Is there already a 1712 and 1812?

I imagine this is possibly because the shoulder peak services are the most heavily loaded? I recall the 1915 Paddington-Swansea in HST days was so overcrowded it was physically difficult to board if you arrived at the last minute, being the first off-peak service after the evening peak.

 

[nw1]

I imagine this is possibly because the shoulder peak services are the most heavily loaded? I recall the 1915 Paddington-Swansea in HST days was so overcrowded it was physically difficult to board if you arrived at the last minute, being the first off-peak service after the evening peak.

Maybe, though somewhat counter-intuitive if so. One would expect the peak to be the most heavily loaded.

 

[mangyiscute]

Maybe, though somewhat counter-intuitive if so. One would expect the peak to be the most heavily loaded.

Most people will happily travel at a slightly less convenient time if it means travelling off-peak, especially since the fare difference is so big in this case; I often have it in London where I wait around until 7 because I have an off-peak ticket and don't fancy a slow train all the way to reading despite wanting to leave earlier.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Maybe, though somewhat counter-intuitive if so. One would expect the peak to be the most heavily loaded.

Not really, with peak fares the last peak service will be less attractive to most pax than the first off-peak with the cheaper fare.

 

[nw1]

Not really, with peak fares the last peak service will be less attractive to most pax than the first off-peak with the cheaper fare.

Though the peak being the peak would presumably suggest that the additionals should run just to cope with the sheer number of commuters with season tickets.

That was certainly how it used to run at Reading: around 1700 or 1800 a number of HST services would pass non-stop through the station, and there'd be additionals (often bound for Oxford or Bedwyn, etc, occasionally terminating at Reading) to provide for the Reading commuters.

 

[JonathanH]

That was certainly how it used to run at Reading: around 1700 or 1800 a number of HST services would pass non-stop through the station, and there'd be additionals (often bound for Oxford or Bedwyn, etc, occasionally terminating at Reading) to provide for the Reading commuters.

Reading commuters on season tickets and anytime tickets have been catered for on evening peak fast services since the early 1990s. The trains that were once formed of Turbos (and before that NSE stock) are now all run with 387s and IETs and have the same restrictions for off-peak tickets as the longer distance services. The only option for holders of (most) off-peak tickets between 4pm and 7pm from Paddington to Reading is now the Elizabeth Line services.

 

[MasterPhillips]

I imagine this is possibly because the shoulder peak services are the most heavily loaded? I recall the 1915 Paddington-Swansea in HST days was so overcrowded it was physically difficult to board if you arrived at the last minute, being the first off-peak service after the evening peak.

From my experience the 19:18 as it is now it’s as bad as you describe however the 16:18 is as it is one of the few Swansea services booked as 5 coaches (as opposed to always being short formed of which there are many…)

 

[Basil Jet]

About 75% of the June timetable seems to be now up at https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/nrt/jun2024/ , although I have no idea if some of this might change before the start date.

 

[SeanM1997]

West Midlands Railway's priorities are a little confusing to me

The Liverpool - Birmingham service remains hourly most of the time on weekdays with only extras in the peak

Crewe - Stoke - Stafford remains as this service instead of via Tame Bridge, with that path being used by the new Shrewsbury - Birmingham service

So Crewe - Birmingham remains down to 2 per hour (1 WMR and 1 Avanti), half that it was - with no end in sight... I'd have thought using the Tame Bridge path to maintain a 2nd Liverpool - Birmingham or reintroduce the Crewe - Stoke - Birmingham service would have been preferred?

 

[Starmill]

Oxford - Banbury was quoted pre Covid as one of the busiest parts of the XC network. It doesn't help that the only alternative is a rough 2 hourly GWR stopper.

And no service at all on the stoppers on Sunday, other than June - September. Which really is bananas. As a minimum run it like Looe, March - October. Very poor.

 

[mangyiscute]

And no service at all on the stoppers on Sunday, other than June - September. Which really is bananas. As a minimum run it like Looe, March - October. Very poor.

The stoppers see very little usage since most of the traffic between Oxford and Banbury will be people travelling a lot further so will just always use the XC trains, so I can understand the decision to not run them on Sundays.
Looking at the station to station database will be useless in this scenario too since Banbury is such an effective splitting point for journeys from Reading/Oxford up north, I wouldn't be surprised if over half of the supposed Oxford to Banbury journeys are actually split tickets.

 

[Kite159]

The stoppers see very little usage since most of the traffic between Oxford and Banbury will be people travelling a lot further so will just always use the XC trains, so I can understand the decision to not run them on Sundays.
Looking at the station to station database will be useless in this scenario too since Banbury is such an effective splitting point for journeys from Reading/Oxford up north, I wouldn't be surprised if over half of the supposed Oxford to Banbury journeys are actually split tickets.

Especially as Banbury is the limit of the former NSE area. There will be a few passengers boarding at Banbury heading towards Oxford whom use the stopper solely because it will be the next available service and won't be standing room only. Certainly whenever I head towards the West Midlands on a day trip I split at Banbury (and also forced to change due to XC not accepting Gold Card discounts north of Banbury)

 

[Doctor Fegg]

The stoppers see very little usage since most of the traffic between Oxford and Banbury will be people travelling a lot further so will just always use the XC trains

That isn't remotely true.

Banbury to Oxford is a massive commuter flow and, thanks to the decimation of the XC service, many passengers use the GWR stoppers. The 1653 and 1754 departures from Oxford are both very busy trains.

 

[North-Valiant]

West Midlands Railway's priorities are a little confusing to me

The Liverpool - Birmingham service remains hourly most of the time on weekdays with only extras in the peak

Crewe - Stoke - Stafford remains as this service instead of via Tame Bridge, with that path being used by the new Shrewsbury - Birmingham service

So Crewe - Birmingham remains down to 2 per hour (1 WMR and 1 Avanti), half that it was - with no end in sight... I'd have thought using the Tame Bridge path to maintain a 2nd Liverpool - Birmingham or reintroduce the Crewe - Stoke - Birmingham service would have been preferred?

The sooner they reinstate a direct train from Stone to Birmingham the better

 

[mangyiscute]

That isn't remotely true.

Banbury to Oxford is a massive commuter flow and, thanks to the decimation of the XC service, many passengers use the GWR stoppers. The 1653 and 1754 departures from Oxford are both very busy trains.

But we were talking about the lack of a Sunday service, so I don't think that commuter flows are relevant - when I have taken the train off-peak, it's been quiet.

 

[Starmill]

The stoppers see very little usage since most of the traffic between Oxford and Banbury will be people travelling a lot further so will just always use the XC trains, so I can understand the decision to not run them on Sundays.
Looking at the station to station database will be useless in this scenario too since Banbury is such an effective splitting point for journeys from Reading/Oxford up north, I wouldn't be surprised if over half of the supposed Oxford to Banbury journeys are actually split tickets.

You can easily say that about the Oxford Canal line stoppers every single day, not only Sunday, yet GWR have improved the service to a more even two-hourly with a few of the gaps filled in morning and evening.

 

[mangyiscute]

You can easily say that about the Oxford Canal line stoppers every single day, not only Sunday, yet GWR have improved the service to a more even two-hourly with a few of the gaps filled in morning and evening.

I guess my point is that I highly doubt introducing the stoppers on a sunday, or say increasing them to hourly mon-sat, will have any meaningful difference on xc loadings. Perhaps if they are also timed to connect with chiltern services towards Birmingham and cheaper gwr/chiltern tickets are offered people would start to use them for Oxford to Birmingham journeys, but I don't know whether the pathing would work for this.

 

[Starmill]

I guess my point is that I highly doubt introducing the stoppers on a sunday, or say increasing them to hourly mon-sat, will have any meaningful difference on xc loadings. Perhaps if they are also timed to connect with chiltern services towards Birmingham and cheaper gwr/chiltern tickets are offered people would start to use them for Oxford to Birmingham journeys, but I don't know whether the pathing would work for this.

The Oxford Canal stopping service had already been improved quite substantially given what's there today. I don't think anything more is at all likely.