Merseyrail legacy fleet updates (Class 507/508)

[Tynwald]

its gone for srcap. there will be others

 

[L401CJF]

its gone for srcap. there will be others

Do you have a source?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

18 units out of traffic

Thats a serious falling off the cliff deterioration which would be surprisingly rapid even for there age so is there is an underlying issue at the maintenance depot?

 

[DJH1971]

Thats a serious falling off the cliff deterioration which would be surprisingly rapid even for there age so is there is an underlying issue at the maintenance depot?

Merseyrail won't be able to run a service if it gets even worse

 

[8A Rail]

I am aware of the lack of road access to Kirkdale depot compared to Seaforth CT, but I meant was there not a suitable pair of locos closer than Derby capable of performing such a short movement albeit with all the reversals?

Sadly, I cannot assume you know details about Kirkdale etc from your comment hence my observation. I don't have a crystal ball and I am not aware I know you either, so sorry.

I think it is down to who holds the contract for the movement of the Class 507 / 508 units with Merseyrail. I have a feeling that R.O.G. seem to have that contract and their small fleet of loco's are based in the Midlands. The Class 777 movements are as I understand a different contract.

 

[507020]

Sadly, I cannot assume you know details about Kirkdale etc from your comment hence my observation. I don't have a crystal ball and I am not aware I know you either, so sorry.

I think it is down to who holds the contract for the movement of the Class 507 / 508 units with Merseyrail. I have a feeling that R.O.G. seem to have that contract and their small fleet of loco's are based in the Midlands. The Class 777 movements are as I understand a different contract.

If you did have a crystal ball it would be better use of it to find out when the 777s will enter service and what had to be agreed with the guards/RMT to make it happen.

The 777 movements cover the whole length of the country from Dollands Moor to Kirkdale so to source a loco from anywhere in the country for one wouldn’t have so much of an impact compared with coming from Derby to do Kirkdale - Seaforth. Even Kirkdale - Crewe/Warrington movements are a bit more significant distances.

Thats a serious falling off the cliff deterioration which would be surprisingly rapid even for there age so is there is an underlying issue at the maintenance depot?

I was told the problem they have all developed is to do with axle bearings.

 

[Tynwald]

Problem with a lot of fleets

 

[bramling]

Do you have a source?

A contact of mine who is reasonably reliable says it is going for some kind of condition assessment, but not with a view to this particular unit continuing in service. Whether it will return to Liverpool once this is concluded is not clear, but the suggestion is probably not.

I should stress this is from semi-official sources.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I was told the problem they have all developed is to do with axle bearings.

Umm a common denominator fault suggests a failure in mtce or perhaps when the bogies were overhauled. Hope they put the brushes back in. Anyhow once diagnosed they should be able to get them back into traffic. Any 313/314 bogies knocking about!

 

[Skymonster]

I am confused as to why our assumption was that it would be moved to Derby by rail. Perhaps that was the intention?

see first post in this topic

 

[507020]

A contact of mine who is reasonably reliable says it is going for some kind of condition assessment, but not with a view to this particular unit continuing in service. Whether it will return to Liverpool once this is concluded is not clear, but the suggestion is probably not.

I should stress this is from semi-official sources.

Will this condition assessment involve things like cutting into the aluminium to inspect the internal structure, which is of course destructive and not reversible?

Umm a common denominator fault suggests a failure in mtce or perhaps when the bogies were overhauled. Hope they put the brushes back in. Anyhow once diagnosed they should be able to get them back into traffic. Any 313/314 bogies knocking about!

Or perhaps the bogies were not overhauled. All of the units I’ve seen which are not out of traffic look to have been overhauled. For a common fault, a large batch of parts must be able to be sourced quote cheaply.

see first post in this topic

I have, which is why I wonder why the assumption was made that it would be going by rail.

 

[50002Superb]

18 units out of traffic. Can anyone confirm which ones these are please?

I too would be interested to know this, if possible, and where they are currently stored please?

 

[Liverpool 507]

I too would be interested to know this, if possible, and where they are currently stored please?

There’s some in the sidings at West Kirby, along with two units stored in the Wallside Siding at New Brighton. Both West Kirby sidings and the Wallside Siding at New Brighton are the usual dumping grounds for demic units. Nothing extra is stored at Southport, Birkenhead Central, Rock Ferry or Hooton.

I imagine Merseyrail and Stadler are cautiously monitoring the situation as it’s now starting to affect peak time six car workings on the Southport/Hunts Cross and Ormskirk lines.

 

[kemal]

Morning

Does anyone know which units are out of service please?

 

[prod_pep]

Morning

Does anyone know which units are out of service please?

Not a full answer unfortunately, but the following units were out of service on Saturday (28/05):
507003, 507004, 507005, 507014, 507016, 507027, 507029
508117, 508123, 508126, 508127, 508128, 508138, 508143

Of these, 507016 is undergoing overhaul I understand and 508143's future has been discussed above (definitely not scrap as far as I know).

 

[8A Rail]

I have seen an image of No 508143 and it is NOT at Seaforth C.T. It is actually on the ex running line that went in and out of the Atlantic Terminal complex which is now a siding, access is from Strand Road crossing by the shunters cabin. Given it's position, it is well out of the way for operation of existing dock trains.

 

[507020]

I have seen an image of No 508143 and it is NOT at Seaforth C.T. It is actually on the ex running line that went in and out of the Atlantic Terminal complex which is now a siding, access is from Strand Road crossing by the shunters cabin. Given it's position, it is well out of the way for operation of existing dock trains.

Where is the image. I’m particularly annoyed because I was debating whether to wait for it at Strand Road crossing or at Crewe and I chose the latter.

 

[50002Superb]

Not a full answer unfortunately, but the following units were out of service on Saturday (28/05):
507003, 507004, 507005, 507014, 507016, 507027, 507029
508117, 508123, 508126, 508127, 508128, 508138, 508143

Of these, 507016 is undergoing overhaul I understand and 508143's future has been discussed above (definitely not scrap as far as I know).

Do you know where 507027 is being kept please?

 

[Liverpool 507]

Where is the image. I’m particularly annoyed because I was debating whether to wait for it at Strand Road crossing or at Crewe and I chose the latter.

Can’t find a link but there is a photo of the unit split in the Mersey Railways Facebook group. The Hunts X leading carriage has been removed by road with the other two coaches stored. The area isn’t accessible to the public.

 

[prod_pep]

Do you know where 507027 is being kept please?

I saw it inside Birkenhead North Depot's main shed earlier today. If you need it for sight, just to advise it might be difficult to get at the moment as they tend to have the depot doors closed for most of the day.

 

[507020]

Can’t find a link but there is a photo of the unit split in the Mersey Railways Facebook group. The Hunts X leading carriage has been removed by road with the other two coaches stored. The area isn’t accessible to the public.

What do you mean Hunts X leading carriage? The 507s and 508s get turned when they go round the Wirral loop like, so either end can be leading when they run on the Northern line routes.

 

[8A Rail]

Where is the image. I’m particularly annoyed because I was debating whether to wait for it at Strand Road crossing or at Crewe and I chose the latter.

The image I viewed, originated via Facebook and unable to find the link, sorry. However it shows the 'silver' livery side of the train rather than the 'yellow' livery side as viewed from Strand Road.

What do you mean Hunts X leading carriage? The 507s and 508s get turned when they go round the Wirral loop like, so either end can be leading when they run on the Northern line routes.

I think 'Liverpool 507' is referring to the end of the unit that was facing towards the city (i.e. Hunts Cross end) with the other end facing towards Seaforth. Likewise, I have also received confirmation that one car of the three car unit in no longer there. Given that you know which side of the train that was on view (silver) then you may be able to work out which end car has disappeared?

 

[507020]

I think 'Liverpool 507' is referring to the end of the unit that was facing towards the city (i.e. Hunts Cross end) with the other end facing towards Seaforth. Likewise, I have also received confirmation that one car of the three car unit in no longer there. Given that you know which side of the train that was on view (silver) then you may be able to work out which end car has disappeared?

You might, but I don’t know if they all have the livery applied the same way round

 

[8A Rail]

You might, but I don’t know if they all have the livery applied the same way round

Just attempting to be helpful. With the exception of the special livery Units (eg Beatles, Hope Universary) as far as I am aware the remainder of the MR fleet is 'yellow' on one side and other side is 'silver'. On that basis, I could be wrong but the car unit that has been removed is No 64691?

 

[507020]

Just attempting to be helpful. With the exception of the special livery Units (eg Beatles, Hope Universary) as far as I am aware the remainder of the MR fleet is 'yellow' on one side and other side is 'silver'. On that basis, I could be wrong but the car unit that has been removed is No 64691?

Yes with the exceptions of 507002 and 508111, all Merseyrail units are yellow on one side and silver/grey on the other, but I’m not certain that they necessarily all have the livery applied with the yellow or silver/grey on the same side as each other, so I don’t think it’s possible to know whether it’s the DMS(A) end or the DMS(B) which has gone based on which side of the livery is showing. It could be 64691 but it could equally be 64734.

 

[youngiecj]

There’s some in the sidings at West Kirby, along with two units stored in the Wallside Siding at New Brighton. Both West Kirby sidings and the Wallside Siding at New Brighton are the usual dumping grounds for demic units. Nothing extra is stored at Southport, Birkenhead Central, Rock Ferry or Hooton.

I imagine Merseyrail and Stadler are cautiously monitoring the situation as it’s now starting to affect peak time six car workings on the Southport/Hunts Cross and Ormskirk lines.

507003/508138 were both stored at New Brighton yesterday.

 

[py_megapixel]

Yes with the exceptions of 507002 and 508111, all Merseyrail units are yellow on one side and silver/grey on the other, but I’m not certain that they necessarily all have the livery applied with the yellow or silver/grey on the same side as each other, so I don’t think it’s possible to know whether it’s the DMS(A) end or the DMS(B) which has gone based on which side of the livery is showing. It could be 64691 but it could equally be 64734.

I've looked up 508143 on YouTube, and it appears to have the livery applied in such a way that the yellow side is the right-hand side if 64734 is leading, or the left-hand side if 64691 is leading - if that helps anyone.

(that's assuming you're facing in the direction the train is travelling in, of course)

 

[8A Rail]

Yes with the exceptions of 507002 and 508111, all Merseyrail units are yellow on one side and silver/grey on the other, but I’m not certain that they necessarily all have the livery applied with the yellow or silver/grey on the same side as each other, so I don’t think it’s possible to know whether it’s the DMS(A) end or the DMS(B) which has gone based on which side of the livery is showing. It could be 64691 but it could equally be 64734.

OK I leave with it you, again attempting to be helpful but I've based my observations on images I have seen of the Unit hence No 64691. I shall now move on from this matter.

 

[MR-507508]

507003/508138 were both stored at New Brighton yesterday.

Any idea what unit(s) are stabled in West Kirby siding 1?
I see 508128 is stabled in siding 2, on its own it look like.

 

[Liverpool 507]

Any idea what unit(s) are stabled in West Kirby siding 1?
I see 508128 is stabled in siding 2, on its own it look like.

507005, 507014 and 508117 are at West Kirby with 508128.

What do you mean Hunts X leading carriage? The 507s and 508s get turned when they go round the Wirral loop like, so either end can be leading when they run on the Northern line routes.

Apologies, I was referring to coach 64691 which was leading towards Hunts Cross.