Metrocar updates and withdrawals - Tyne & Wear Metro

[DanNCL]

Seen 4010 on the avoiding line at Gosforth Depot. It has missing windows and door buttons at the moment. Just behind it was 4001 too which had graffiti on it too, did you know yet?

Knew about 01 but not 10. Thanks for the update, first time anyone seems to have seen 10 for months!

A shame but hardly a surprise it’s already graffitied.

Was there any other metrocars still on the avoiding line, thinking of 4046, 60 and 76?

No surprises the units have been quickly tagged though, guess it does not really matter, be interesting too see if 4001 gets a new vinyl applied as even before any vandalism there seemed quite a bit of damage to the livery/vinyl from the tape they used to hold down the plastic that was covering the missing windows.

It wouldn’t surprise me if it regained its full TWPTE livery in preservation.

It was 60 and 76 apart from 10 and 01. 46 did not seem to be there

20 should have been there too so one would assume that’s moved with 46.

 

[Paul_10]

I think it's looking increasingly likely 4060 and most definately 4076 are now fully withdrawn, I don't expect any of them will see service again.

 

[Class142sbad]

I think it's looking increasingly likely 4060 and most definately 4076 are now fully withdrawn, I don't expect any of them will see service again.

I went to Cheswick drive on Saturday and I saw what I think was 4060 and 4076 and they looked in a really bad shape of repair. I also saw 4001 but the view was obscured by some trees and someones house.

 

[DanNCL]

List updated with multiple changes that are noted in the change log in the opening post.

Can anyone confirm if 4010 is on accommodation bogies?

I think it's looking increasingly likely 4060 and most definately 4076 are now fully withdrawn, I don't expect any of them will see service again.

I was thinking that myself. Both are now marked as withdrawn.

 

[bramling]

4040+83 out on T130 today. Presumably this is now fairly typical?

 

[DanNCL]

4040+83 out on T130 today. Presumably this is now fairly typical?

Yes. Now that 01 and 02 have been withdrawn and the Wabtec fleet is falling apart 40 and 83 are being used as part of the regular fleet rather than in reserve use as before. Even on the rare occasions peak extras run 40 and 83 are usually on a full length diagram.

 

[bramling]

Yes. Now that 01 and 02 have been withdrawn and the Wabtec fleet is falling apart 40 and 83 are being used as part of the regular fleet rather than in reserve use as before. Even on the rare occasions peak extras run 40 and 83 are usually on a full length diagram.

Is 4002 now definitely a gone-er?

 

[DanNCL]

Is 4002 now definitely a gone-er?

Most likely. It’s not ran for a year, heavily vandalised and missing components including its pantograph and motor alternator.

 

[bramling]

Most likely. It’s not ran for a year, heavily vandalised and missing components including its pantograph and motor alternator.

Shame. It was a good runner and in good condition when I went on it roughly this time last year. Glad I had the opportunity, especially as it’s been so elusive over recent years.

 

[Paul_10]

Makes you wonder why bother spending the time and money fitting door sounders onto it for it to be used on peak services for a month at most?

However no surprises there because Nexus always have a history of wasting money

 

[DanNCL]

Shame. It was a good runner and in good condition when I went on it roughly this time last year. Glad I had the opportunity, especially as it’s been so elusive over recent years.

Indeed. It was by far the most elusive of the four unrefurbished units. The last time it ran on what could be considered a regular basis was in early 2015, after that it's only ever made occasional appearances. Of the period between 2015 and withdrawal in 2022, it missed 2016 entirely and missed most of 2017 and 2020.

Makes you wonder why bother spending the time and money fitting door sounders onto it for it to be used on peak services for a month at most?

However no surprises there because Nexus always have a history of wasting money

It was worth doing the modifications to 40 and 83 but not to 01 and 02. Would have been better to withdraw the two prototypes on 31st December 2019, they can't have seen more than 100 days service between the pair of them after that date.

Nexus had applied to exempt 01, 02, 40 and 83 from RVAR compliance but the ORR didn't issue a derogation to permit this, which meant they had to be modified or withdrawn by 1st January 2020.

 

[Paul_10]

Indeed. It was by far the most elusive of the four unrefurbished units. The last time it ran on what could be considered a regular basis was in early 2015, after that it's only ever made occasional appearances. Of the period between 2015 and withdrawal in 2022, it missed 2016 entirely and missed most of 2017 and 2020.


It was worth doing the modifications to 40 and 83 but not to 01 and 02. Would have been better to withdraw the two prototypes on 31st December 2019, they can't have seen more than 100 days service between the pair of them after that date.

Nexus had applied to exempt 01, 02, 40 and 83 from RVAR compliance but the ORR didn't issue a derogation to permit this, which meant they had to be modified or withdrawn by 1st January 2020.

That's a fair point, even stuff like the flooring and doing the corrosion repairs, you do wonder was there really any point if they were going to see such little service time.

Im assuming the realibility of the doors and probably the non compliance door button are contributing factors why they have seen such little service since in the past few years.

 

[bramling]

That's a fair point, even stuff like the flooring and doing the corrosion repairs, you do wonder was there really any point if they were going to see such little service time.

Im assuming the realibility of the doors and probably the non compliance door button are contributing factors why they have seen such little service since in the past few years.

Is the issue simply that the doors on 01 and 02 are different from the rest of the fleet?

On a different note, I gather one of the new units is out to play tonight? If so I might take the opportunity to get a photo somewhere.

 

[DanNCL]

That's a fair point, even stuff like the flooring and doing the corrosion repairs, you do wonder was there really any point if they were going to see such little service time.

Im assuming the realibility of the doors and probably the non compliance door button are contributing factors why they have seen such little service since in the past few years.

Is the issue simply that the doors on 01 and 02 are different from the rest of the fleet?

The Kiekert doors were one of the bigger issues with 4001 and 4002. They were unreliable and getting spare parts for them was an issue, parts had to be custom manufactured just for 01 and 02. I'm sure there'll have been a reason, but I'm struggling to understand why the Kiekert doors weren't replaced by Westinghouse doors as seen on the production fleet when 4001 and 4002 were rebuilt in the 1980s.
The ORR issued a limited derogation for 4001 and 4002 to cover the non-compliant door buttons. A wider derogation was also issued for a couple of other things such as the diameter of the grab rails, which applied to the entire fleet. But the door tones, wheelchair spaces and colour contrast flooring were mandated by the ORR despite the application by Nexus for a derogation for the 4 unrefurbished units.

On a different note, I gather one of the new units is out to play tonight? If so I might take the opportunity to get a photo somewhere.

I've heard the same too. No idea where it's heading or what times though. Test runs with Metrocars have usually been on the Airport branch but with the first 555s they'll have to be tested everywhere so the Airport branch might not be tonight's destination, assuming the unit makes it out.

 

[bramling]

4040/4083 on T135 today.

 

[hacman]

The Kiekert doors were one of the bigger issues with 4001 and 4002. They were unreliable and getting spare parts for them was an issue, parts had to be custom manufactured just for 01 and 02. I'm sure there'll have been a reason, but I'm struggling to understand why the Kiekert doors weren't replaced by Westinghouse doors as seen on the production fleet when 4001 and 4002 were rebuilt in the 1980s.

I'm guessing the doors on 01/02 were not changed as the work to re-profile the frame would have been expensive, as the mechanics of the two types of doors are somewhat different.

In the 1980s and 1990s, there were also quite a number of other fleets in Europe that used Kiekert doors, so I'd assume the decision was made to keep them as they were on the basis that parts were just as easy to get.

What is ultimately rather ironic is that Kiekert is still around, whereas Westinghouse is not, having been (I believe) consumed by General Electric!

The doors Stadler uses on their products including the new 555s have quite a similarity in some ways to the Kiekert doors. Depending on how they're setup I'd imagine people won't be holding them open like the old Westinghouse ones!

 

[Tramfan]

4028, 4029, 4030, 4035, 4074 and 4086 are all back in service

 

[DanNCL]

4028, 4029, 4030, 4035, 4074 and 4086 are all back in service

List updated, thanks

 

[bramling]

4040/83 on T127 today (Monday).

4040/83 was on T104 today (Wednesday), but just been withdrawn from service at Sunderland due to a defect (which may well be a smashed window).

 

[TWTrains]

Most likely. It’s not ran for a year, heavily vandalised and missing components including its pantograph and motor alternator.

4002 has ran since service withdrawl. I’ve been on it during shunting at Gosforth Depot in mid-June 2022.

It was never intended for early withdrawl, but given the policies on disabled access set out by the government, and 4002 not meeting the spec, it was cheaper to withdraw it completely, rather than pay for an exemption for a single Metrocar. 4002 also makes a handy source of spares for the other cars.

 

[bramling]

4002 has ran since service withdrawl. I’ve been on it during shunting at Gosforth Depot in mid-June 2022.

It was never intended for early withdrawl, but given the policies on disabled access set out by the government, and 4002 not meeting the spec, it was cheaper to withdraw it completely, rather than pay for an exemption for a single Metrocar. 4002 also makes a handy source of spares for the other cars.

Is it just the door buttons that aren’t compliant?

 

[DanNCL]

It was never intended for early withdrawl, but given the policies on disabled access set out by the government, and 4002 not meeting the spec, it was cheaper to withdraw it completely, rather than pay for an exemption for a single Metrocar. 4002 also makes a handy source of spares for the other cars.

Is it just the door buttons that aren’t compliant?

Nexus have a derogation that covers all of the accessibility issues until 2026 - the Metrocars should all be long gone by that point. Nexus had applied for a derogation to cover handrails and a couple of other minor things on all 89 units, as well as to keep 01/02/40/83 in pre 2015 condition. The derogation actually granted by the ORR was for the minor issues on the full fleet and additionally the door buttons on 01 and 02, which is why the four unrefurbished units were modified in 2018-2019. Apart from the door buttons 01 and 02 were no less compliant than the other units, having had the same modifications as 40 and 83 had in 2019.

So from a regulatory point of view there were no hurdles to keeping it in service, everything that needed doing in that regard had already been done. However, from a technical and financial point of view the best option was to withdraw it. 02 was already non-standard and with the withdrawal of 01 had become unique, therefore requiring it’s own spare parts solely for the one unit to cover things such as the doors. It was also never the most reliable performer. Had 01 not already been withdrawn there might have been some justification to keeping 02 but without 01 it was pointless, using it as a parts donor was the best option. 10 and 76 were also taken out of use to become spare parts donors at around the same time.

Hopefully 02 will be preserved, but I’m not aware of any firm plans for it. At least at only 27m in length a Metrocar should be much easier to find space for in preservation than any other EMU.

 

[Volvictof]

12 and 61 are no longer on 1rd at Howdon. Have they gone into the shed or elsewhere?

 

[Paul_10]

12 and 61 are no longer on 1rd at Howdon. Have they gone into the shed or elsewhere?

Out of interest, are 4055/4062 at Howdon depot and are they visable from passing trains?

 

[DanNCL]

12 and 61 are no longer on 1rd at Howdon. Have they gone into the shed or elsewhere?

Out of interest, are 4055/4062 at Howdon depot and are they visable from passing trains?

Unless 55 and 62 have left by road unnoticed they’re in the shed, which means 12 and 61 can’t be in the shed so will be elsewhere (presumably Gosforth) but I’ll make enquiries and post an update as soon as I have one.

 

[bramling]

4040/4083 on T101 today (Wednesday).

 

[Paul_10]

Been up in the region for a few days so only a few observations to be made, sadly mostly negative I've got to say.

Firstly, 4007 has returned to service, currently paired with 4006. Did not spot any other units which are currently down in yellow on the OPs list.

Noticing alot more graffiti at stations, usually in the past I believe this quickly gets scrubbed off when its close to passengers seeing. Chillingham road seems badly hit by this.

The exteriors of the trains are absolutely awful and I don't mean damage due to graffiti removal or units which clearly had a full on graffiti attack(4089 certainly one which you can see has been targeted) but I mean a clear lack of hand washing on the trains. The amount of muck on them is quite shameful for the time of year and the B ends don't look like they been handwashed this year(would not surprised me if that was the case). I never believe the train wash thing was ever effective, no good spraying water with chemicals and then just leaving it but I'm doubting if that is even in use because the sides of the trains on most units are awful. Compare and contrasts to the buses then it's night and day really.

More positive, 4026 has been through the "deep cleaning" process and seeing polished floors do make them look alot neater.

 

[bramling]

Been up in the region for a few days so only a few observations to be made, sadly mostly negative I've got to say.

Firstly, 4007 has returned to service, currently paired with 4006. Did not spot any other units which are currently down in yellow on the OPs list.

Noticing alot more graffiti at stations, usually in the past I believe this quickly gets scrubbed off when its close to passengers seeing. Chillingham road seems badly hit by this.

The exteriors of the trains are absolutely awful and I don't mean damage due to graffiti removal or units which clearly had a full on graffiti attack(4089 certainly one which you can see has been targeted) but I mean a clear lack of hand washing on the trains. The amount of muck on them is quite shameful for the time of year and the B ends don't look like they been handwashed this year(would not surprised me if that was the case). I never believe the train wash thing was ever effective, no good spraying water with chemicals and then just leaving it but I'm doubting if that is even in use because the sides of the trains on most units are awful. Compare and contrasts to the buses then it's night and day really.

More positive, 4026 has been through the "deep cleaning" process and seeing polished floors do make them look alot neater.

The system is certainly creaking at the seams. There was a 40+ minute gap in the yellow line service round the coast last night, which was being blamed on the Biance concert (I presume some yellow line trains were pulled to serve as additional to Sunderland?). Gaps of 25-30 minutes have been pretty common the whole time I’ve been up here. It’s hard to see how they can be short of stock now the peak extras have gone.

I find the driving technique odd. Quite a few drivers seem to fan the brake, and I’ve experienced a few who seem to fully release the brake numerous times when stopping at a station. This is painful to experience as a passenger. I presume this isn’t trained, but is there something about the current fleet which makes this poor technique necessary?

It also seems that the control staff have virtually given up. When there have been gaps there seems little attempt to disseminate information via PAs, and seemingly the control strategy seems to be “leave alone”. This compares disfavourably to something like TFL who at least try and even out intervals.

Then there’s the antisocial behaviour. I won’t write too much as it’s been covered elsewhere, but there’s a PA playing every couple of minutes about how “antisocial behaviour is unacceptable on metro”, and invites people to text Northumbria Police. I find this a bit unfortunate as it almost gives the impression of “not our problem”.

On top of that, there’s the debacle with the Haymarket escalators, and it seems like half the lifts are out of service as well.

I can certainly see why the general consensus seems to that Nexus are incompetent.

 

[Paul_10]

The system is certainly creaking at the seams. There was a 40+ minute gap in the yellow line service round the coast last night, which was being blamed on the Biance concert (I presume some yellow line trains were pulled to serve as additional to Sunderland?). Gaps of 25-30 minutes have been pretty common the whole time I’ve been up here. It’s hard to see how they can be short of stock now the peak extras have gone.

I find the driving technique odd. Quite a few drivers seem to fan the brake, and I’ve experienced a few who seem to fully release the brake numerous times when stopping at a station. This is painful to experience as a passenger. I presume this isn’t trained, but is there something about the current fleet which makes this poor technique necessary?

It also seems that the control staff have virtually given up. When there have been gaps there seems little attempt to disseminate information via PAs, and seemingly the control strategy seems to be “leave alone”. This compares disfavourably to something like TFL who at least try and even out intervals.

Then there’s the antisocial behaviour. I won’t write too much as it’s been covered elsewhere, but there’s a PA playing every couple of minutes about how “antisocial behaviour is unacceptable on metro”, and invites people to text Northumbria Police. I find this a bit unfortunate as it almost gives the impression of “not our problem”.

I can certainly see why the general consensus seems to that Nexus are incompetent.

According to RTT there was 3 extra trains to Sunderland but an additional 2 were added for when it was leaving time, I guess if you have not got the stock then it does make sense to pull trains from the yellow line but it should never come to that if indeed the gap is down to that.

Talking of PAs heard a couple of times drivers speaking about the central station lift being closed but the 2 times I heard it being announced by the drivers, they shouldn't of bothered as the audio was really poor, whether that is because drivers are not used to speaking through the phone or more likely, it's not being tested regularly and in the event of an emergency situation then that is not ideal at all.

To bring it a bit back on topic, is there any news yet when the first train(s) being sent for scrap?

 

[DanNCL]

Firstly, 4007 has returned to service, currently paired with 4006. Did not spot any other units which are currently down in yellow on the OPs list.

Thanks, list now updated.

The exteriors of the trains are absolutely awful and I don't mean damage due to graffiti removal or units which clearly had a full on graffiti attack(4089 certainly one which you can see has been targeted) but I mean a clear lack of hand washing on the trains. The amount of muck on them is quite shameful for the time of year and the B ends don't look like they been handwashed this year(would not surprised me if that was the case). I never believe the train wash thing was ever effective, no good spraying water with chemicals and then just leaving it but I'm doubting if that is even in use because the sides of the trains on most units are awful. Compare and contrasts to the buses then it's night and day really.

The B ends haven't been washed for many years, it hasn't been considered a priority with the B ends always being the 'buried' cabs.
The train wash at Gosforth is to be replaced this year, wouldn't surprise me if the old one has already been taken out of use.

It also seems that the control staff have virtually given up. When there have been gaps there seems little attempt to disseminate information via PAs, and seemingly the control strategy seems to be “leave alone”. This compares disfavourably to something like TFL who at least try and even out intervals.

Then there’s the antisocial behaviour. I won’t write too much as it’s been covered elsewhere, but there’s a PA playing every couple of minutes about how “antisocial behaviour is unacceptable on metro”, and invites people to text Northumbria Police. I find this a bit unfortunate as it almost gives the impression of “not our problem”.

On top of that, there’s the debacle with the Haymarket escalators, and it seems like half the lifts are out of service as well.

I can certainly see why the general consensus seems to that Nexus are incompetent.

With control it's luck. Sometimes you'll see stuff turned back short, both at the common places of Pelaw and Monkseaton and the more unusual places such as Kingston Park or Jarrow, and sometimes you'll see Green line trains diverted onto the Yellow line or vice versa to even out headways, for example trains from the Airport can be and occasionally are rerouted to South Shields during disruption if it allows the headways on the whole network to be evened out better. Increasingly though it seems they're making less of an effort.

The lifts, with the exception of those at Benton, are generally reliable. There's an ongoing refurbishment project for the lifts and this is being done by taking two or three lifts out of service at the same time.

According to RTT there was 3 extra trains to Sunderland but an additional 2 were added for when it was leaving time, I guess if you have not got the stock then it does make sense to pull trains from the yellow line but it should never come to that if indeed the gap is down to that.

Talking of PAs heard a couple of times drivers speaking about the central station lift being closed but the 2 times I heard it being announced by the drivers, they shouldn't of bothered as the audio was really poor, whether that is because drivers are not used to speaking through the phone or more likely, it's not being tested regularly and in the event of an emergency situation then that is not ideal at all.

To bring it a bit back on topic, is there any news yet when the first train(s) being sent for scrap?

As with every event at the Stadium of Light the Metro service after the Beyonce concert has been a farce. If the Yellow Line has to be annihilated to such an extent just to send three extra trains to Sunderland then I dread to think what awaits us on Great North Run day...
Probably worth noting though that the Nexus controller on duty can make a request to Network Rail to send additional trains to Sunderland and permission would generally be granted unless there wasn't the capacity to accommodate any extra trains on the Durham Coast line. Such workings wouldn't appear on RTT so we don't know how many extra trains may (or may not) have gone to Sunderland via this method.

With regards to the scrap moves, the first to go will be 55 and 62 which are already at Howdon and undergoing final component recovery. Whilst we don't yet have a date I understand departure is planned for within the next month or two.