Nuneaton passenger loadings - AWC services

[londonmidland]

Since the addition of Avanti West Coast services calling at Nuneaton, with fast services to London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly every hour, how successful has this been in terms of passenger loadings at this station?

I’ve used Avanti services quite a few times from Nuneaton, which I’ve observed there being a steady flow of passengers waiting on the platforms, as well as there being quite a few alighting, too.

It’ll be interesting to see some official figures for these services.

I’ve also noticed it’s allowed more options for people travelling from East Midlands stations, such as Leicester, travelling to and from Manchester.

 

[Class 170101]

Connection wise it is a miss in both directions between Leicester and Manchester as they are both there at the same time

 

[dk1]

Connection wise it is a miss in both directions between Leicester and Manchester as they are both there at the same time

That seems to have been the way at Nuneaton for time immemorial. Was like that in 80/90s IC days too.

 

[Class 170101]

That seems to have been the way at Nuneaton for time and memorial. Was like that in 80/90s IC days too.

I did my first All Line Rover many years ago (mid 2000s) before VHF and I think it was actually a proper connection then rather than this just miss.

 

[38Cto15E]

Being a Senior the times are not a problem to me. A couple of weeks ago I went AWC Nuneaton to Manchester Piccadilly then MAN to Cardiff Central on the TFW and returned a couple of days later after a trip to Fishguard returning from there on the Swansea avoiding line.Also I have used AWC to go to London from Nuneaton (I live nearer to Leicester) as I benefit from free parking at NUN. So I hope the AWC Nun-Man carries on in the future.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Not as well as expected I believe. I suspect the competitive fares set by London North Western are mainly responsible.

If Avanti offered cheaper Advance fares to compete, it then creates split ticketing anomalies because the market forces from the Manchester/Cheshire/Merseyside area can/will bear the higher fares. This can potentially be addressed by adding Pick Up/Set Down only restrictions like they've had to add to certain services out of Euston to address this elsewhere e.g. 1H71 is Set Down Only at Stafford etc. 1H33 is pick up only at MK, set down only at Rugby etc.

 

[185143]

Not as well as expected I believe. I suspect the competitive fares set by London North Western are mainly responsible.

If Avanti offered cheaper Advance fares to compete, it then creates split ticketing anomalies because the market forces from the Manchester/Cheshire/Merseyside area can/will bear the higher fares. This can potentially be addressed by adding Pick Up/Set Down only restrictions like they've had to add to certain services out of Euston to address this elsewhere e.g. 1H71 is Set Down Only at Stafford etc. 1H33 is pick up only at MK, set down only at Rugby etc.

They don't seem to offer any advances from the Trent Valley to the Cheshire/Greater Manchester area at all anymore. I've had advances on the last London-Preston from Rugby, Lichfield and Stafford to get back to Warrington. They just don't exist now, or I can never find them if they do.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

They don't seem to offer any advances from the Trent Valley to the Cheshire/Greater Manchester area at all anymore. I've had advances on the last London-Preston from Rugby, Lichfield and Stafford to get back to Warrington. They just don't exist now, or I can never find them if they do.

Some of that is simply because the ex-London market is far more lucrative.

No point offering cheap fares from MK/Nuneaton etc heading North if it ties up a seat which could be used on a more profitable London-North journey.

A lot of Avanti's flexible fares are actually quite reasonable if they don't involve London or have an extremely generous restriction code like 2T which effectively makes the Off Peak tickets available all day long.

 

[185143]

Some of that is simply because the ex-London market is far more lucrative.

No point offering cheap fares from MK/Nuneaton etc heading North if it ties up a seat which could be used on a more profitable London-North journey.

A lot of Avanti's flexible fares are actually quite reasonable if they don't involve London or have an extremely generous restriction code like 2T which effectively makes the Off Peak tickets available all day long.

True, but when there's advances available from Euston for less than the walk up from Rugby, it does grate a bit.

Fully agreed that the walk ups are reasonable value though, it's just annoying that we have to buy them when there are so few direct trains (with the exception of Manchester services) But it is what it is.

 

[Llandudno]

Not as well as expected I believe. I suspect the competitive fares set by London North Western are mainly responsible.

If Avanti offered cheaper Advance fares to compete, it then creates split ticketing anomalies because the market forces from the Manchester/Cheshire/Merseyside area can/will bear the higher fares. This can potentially be addressed by adding Pick Up/Set Down only restrictions like they've had to add to certain services out of Euston to address this elsewhere e.g. 1H71 is Set Down Only at Stafford etc. 1H33 is pick up only at MK, set down only at Rugby etc.

Perhaps if the Avanti services were more reliable they may sell more tickets…?

 

[38Cto15E]

FWIW On my trip from Nuneaton to Manchester, I had a 100% outbound delay repay and a 50% return payment

With the fares I was not able to get a NUN-MAN advance ticket but was able to buy NUN-Stockport advance. It does work out a bit dearer to buy the SPT-MAN on AWC trains rather than Northern.

 

[nuneatonmark]

We use them a lot and whatever time of day, there have been plenty of people getting on and off. AWC offer 2 major advantages over LNWR, seat reservations and Standard Premium for us.

 

[HOOVER29]

Since the addition of Avanti West Coast services calling at Nuneaton, with fast services to London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly every hour, how successful has this been in terms of passenger loadings at this station?

I’ve used Avanti services quite a few times from Nuneaton, which I’ve observed there being a steady flow of passengers waiting on the platforms, as well as there being quite a few alighting, too.

It’ll be interesting to see some official figures for these services.

I’ve also noticed it’s allowed more options for people travelling from East Midlands stations, such as Leicester, travelling to and from Manchester.

I was there until around 11 o’clock the other day
All north & southbound Avanti stoppers seemed busy with passengers getting on & off

 

[mchunt]

Use them a lot as Nuneaton now my main station as living on Nuneaton side of Hinckley. Always seems to be a lot of people getting on and off and with a huge amount of new housing developments in our area station only going to get busier.

Fares are a bit troublesome and you really need to get to grips with split ticketing going north to avoid being ripped off (Tamworth & Stockport seem to be the key split places going north). Wish there was a 2nd Trent valley stopper.

 

[g22]

Used this quite a bit between Leicester & Manchester. However they will not release Advance Tickets Nuneaton to Manchester (although as mentioned above splitting can be used currently) or introduce + connections tickets from Leicester or elsewhere. It is frustrating that there can't be a full range of ticket options. The southbound trains I have been on have always had plenty of people getting off at Nuneaton.

 

[A S Leib]

A lot of Avanti's flexible fares are actually quite reasonable if they don't involve London or have an extremely generous restriction code like 2T which effectively makes the Off Peak tickets available all day long.

If going for Club Avanti qualifying journeys, off-peak day returns from Carlisle to Edinburgh, Glasgow or Preston are ~£30 without railcards, but £56 for the cheapest Avanti flexible return from Euston to Rugby, the first station far enough from London to qualify.

 

[Watershed]

This can potentially be addressed by adding Pick Up/Set Down only restrictions like they've had to add to certain services out of Euston to address this elsewhere e.g. 1H71 is Set Down Only at Stafford etc. 1H33 is pick up only at MK, set down only at Rugby etc.

They haven't "had" to add these restrictions - they've cynically and (in my view) fraudulently imposed them in a desperate attempt to stop people from undercutting their ludicrously overpriced fares on half-empty "peak" services.

I say "fraudulently" because these services are advertised as open calls at those stations (e.g. at Stafford heading to Manchester), and the only purpose of this representation is to avoid online/app retailers from offering split tickets which could quite legitimately be used in practice.

 

[XCTurbostar]

I’ve used this many times both for work and leisure. The morning 07:11 and 07:43 has always been busy with commuters specially since it’s last stop Nuneaton. All of the Manchester bound services are lightly loaded for Nuneaton (around 10-15 pax) but the LNRs aren’t too much different either.

 

[A S Leib]

They haven't "had" to add these restrictions - they've cynically and (in my view) fraudulently imposed them in a desperate attempt to stop people from undercutting their ludicrously overpriced fares on half-empty "peak" services.

I say "fraudulently" because these services are advertised as open calls at those stations (e.g. at Stafford heading to Manchester), and the only purpose of this representation is to avoid online/app retailers from offering split tickets which could quite legitimately be used in practice.

I have a ticket for the 19:49 from Carlisle to Milton Keynes, which also calls at Watford Junction, but Watford Junction might be more convenient for me; would I be fine using a flexible MKC to WFJ ticket alongside the Carlisle to Milton Keynes one?

 

[Jamesrob637]

Keep it. You can often get £10 Advance Single from MAN/SPT to NUN, then around the same to London. Just look for the train that departs 1 minute later, and you'll know you have the same train. Then Tweet Avanti with both ticket references and they'll assign you a seat for the whole journey.

 

[jayah]

Not as well as expected I believe. I suspect the competitive fares set by London North Western are mainly responsible.

If Avanti offered cheaper Advance fares to compete, it then creates split ticketing anomalies because the market forces from the Manchester/Cheshire/Merseyside area can/will bear the higher fares.

It isn't really a market when there is only one company running trains between Manchester and London.

 

[miami]

It isn't really a market when there is only one company running trains between Manchester and London.

On non-stop trains sure.If you are more worried about cost than time, you can take TFW and LNR on hourly trains from 0627 taking about 3 hours, for £52.90 return walkup, which is cheaper than a 3 hour train from Manchester to London back in the BR days.

 

[43096]

On non-stop trains sure.If you are more worried about cost than time, you can take TFW and LNR on hourly trains from 0627 taking about 3 hours, for £52.90 return walkup, which is cheaper than a 3 hour train from Manchester to London back in the BR days.

As I recall it, the standard timing for BR InterCity services between Manchester and London was 2hr30, not 3hrs.

 

[Watershed]

As I recall it, the standard timing for BR InterCity services between Manchester and London was 2hr30, not 3hrs.

And it was direct, rather than involving either a ~1 hour fester or 5-minute dash at a charming station...

Still, I don't think there was ever a walk-up return available for the inflation-adjusted equivalent of £52.90.

 

[Jamesrob637]

How do you get £52.90? The LNR Crewe to Euston off-peak return is £52 in itself.

 

[Watershed]

How do you get £52.90? The LNR Crewe to Euston off-peak return is £52 in itself.

It's an extra 90p for the Manchester <-> Euston 'LNR & TfW only' fare.

 

[jayah]

How do you get £52.90? The LNR Crewe to Euston off-peak return is £52 in itself.

Not an option that you will find on a retailing website. Even if you knew the secret was to go via Crewe you still can't find it.

On the basis one company has probably got >99% of the custom, it isn't a competitive market.

 

[jayah]

On non-stop trains sure.If you are more worried about cost than time, you can take TFW and LNR on hourly trains from 0627 taking about 3 hours, for £52.90 return walkup, which is cheaper than a 3 hour train from Manchester to London back in the BR days.

That fare isn't valid for arrival pre 1000 at Euston on weekdays.

And it actually takes around 4hrs because the TFW trains don't connect at Crewe.

 

[Watershed]

That fare isn't valid for arrival pre 1000 at Euston on weekdays.

And it actually takes around 4hrs because the TFW trains don't connect at Crewe.

That's the official southbound journey time with a connection time of about 1h5m. But in practice, you'd almost always make the 5m connection onto the LNR service an hour earlier as it's either cross-platform if the TfW service is on platform 6, or just across the footbridge if it's on platform 5.

The TfW service conflicts with the WMT service on departure, and is usually given priority unless it's significantly delayed, so you have a very good chance of making that connection.

Northbound the official connection is quicker at around 35 minutes.