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Portishead approved

fgwrich

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Off topic, but is it worth spinning the Weston Milton / Weston Super Mare topic out into a separate thread?

Fingers crossed for some news on the submission of the business case though, 2 days left of the month so they’d better be quick!
 
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yorkie

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Off topic, but is it worth spinning the Weston Milton / Weston Super Mare topic out into a separate thread?
This has just been brought to our attention this evening; it has now been done:


Just a gentle reminder to all that this is a thread for actual updates relating to the Portishead project, please :)

We welcome any posts of a speculative nature in the speculative section.

If anyone sees a thread go off topic, please report the first such post to us, using the report button.

Thanks :)
 

tom1649

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I'd love to see the size of the warehouse needed to house all the paperwork related to this reopening so far...
 

tumbles

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Expect the costs to have risen again - ifs now going to be if the dfT want to fork out or try and get WECA/NSC to chip in yet again
 

The exile

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If the announcement's positive, what's the betting it (and any approval of extra stock in the short to medium term - viz 175s or TfW 158s) will be held over until the speech at the official opening of Ashley Down? If it's negative - no doubt nothing before the election....
 

tumbles

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If the announcement's positive, what's the betting it (and any approval of extra stock in the short to medium term - viz 175s or TfW 158s) will be held over until the speech at the official opening of Ashley Down? If it's negative - no doubt nothing before the election....
I'd expect the announcement before the GE to help boost Dr Fox's seat.

Rolling stock I'd imagine we'd end up with 165/166's like the Severn Beach line.
 

The exile

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Rolling stock I'd imagine we'd end up with 165/166's like the Severn Beach line.
Indeed - however, as stock is already too thin on the ground and there will also be a requirement for extra for the Mid-Cornwall metro, there is a requirement for extra stock - whether or not that actually ends up going to Portishead.
 

Irascible

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I'd expect the announcement before the GE to help boost Dr Fox's seat.

Rolling stock I'd imagine we'd end up with 165/166's like the Severn Beach line.

Better flippin hurry with the announcement...

When's the completion date likely to be now? that might be the other side of some GWR procurement actually producing a result.
 

davetheguard

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As the General Election date has now been announced, I assume we are now in purdah, and if the project is to go ahead the decision will now have to wait until after the election?

In short, yet more delay!
 

Snow1964

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As the General Election date has now been announced, I assume we are now in purdah, and if the project is to go ahead the decision will now have to wait until after the election?

In short, yet more delay!

For a General Election there is no set start to purdah
It is determined by convention, usually starts day Parliament is dissolved.

Parliament hasn't yet been dissolved, will be what is known as a wash-up period (where few pieces of selected legislation are rushed through to completion).
 

Backroom_boy

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As the General Election date has now been announced, I assume we are now in purdah, and if the project is to go ahead the decision will now have to wait until after the election?

In short, yet more delay!
Not sure we're in Purdah till Parliament is dissolved, so a whole eight days to anounce anything ...
 

Meerkat

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Not sure we're in Purdah till Parliament is dissolved, so a whole eight days to anounce anything ...
As it seems to have been a surprise to most in the government I would guess none of them are in a position to rush anything through.
 

Mark J

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Why we can't just get on and build things in this country, without all the messing about that goes on, is beyond me.

It is clear that the Portishead line needs to reopen, so why don't they just get on with it.

Without all the messing about, it could have easily been reopened by now and serving the community of Portishead.

Costs have increased due to inflation, red tape and all the fingers in the pie.
 
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lachlan

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Reading the Bristol Rail Campaign update sent to me recently it did sound like things are progressing in the background, with a couple of studies currently ongoing. Unfortunately I don't have the booklet with me and am away from home but I remember there being some issue with wildlife that may be disturbed by the line reopening and that Quays Avenue would need to be re-aligned, increasing costs. The DfT is also trying to get the platform lengths reduced from 5 to 3 coaches to save cost.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Reading the Bristol Rail Campaign update sent to me recently it did sound like things are progressing in the background, with a couple of studies currently ongoing. Unfortunately I don't have the booklet with me and am away from home but I remember there being some issue with wildlife that may be disturbed by the line reopening and that Quays Avenue would need to be re-aligned, increasing costs. The DfT is also trying to get the platform lengths reduced from 5 to 3 coaches to save cost.
why does it need more studies and why dont we look at things holistically. Yes wildlife and bio diversity will be affected but do these protagonists not see how much road kill there is on the roads that would be avoided.
 

lachlan

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why does it need more studies and why dont we look at things holistically. Yes wildlife and bio diversity will be affected but do these protagonists not see how much road kill there is on the roads that would be avoided.
I don't understand why the road being relocated needs further work - I found a map here which already has a plan for the rerouted road. Wildlife I suppose the requirements change or the discover something nee
 

MarkyT

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Reading the Bristol Rail Campaign update sent to me recently it did sound like things are progressing in the background, with a couple of studies currently ongoing. Unfortunately I don't have the booklet with me and am away from home but I remember there being some issue with wildlife that may be disturbed by the line reopening and that Quays Avenue would need to be re-aligned, increasing costs. The DfT is also trying to get the platform lengths reduced from 5 to 3 coaches to save cost.
The five to three reduction would be shortsighted and just means disruption and extra costs when the platforms inevitably need lengthening in a few years. As they're only proposing an initial hourly service, it might lead to overcrowding on one or two trains at peaks if the poor frequency doesn't manage to put people off completely; the time honoured trick of coupling an extra unit for a few peak workings being unavailable with short platforms. Such a measure will only save a little on the physical platform construction itself, assuming future extensions will at least be safeguarded and passively or actively provided for in track and signalling layouts, so moving a few signs and just adding 50 odd metres of platform, lighting etc is all that would be required eventually. Hardly seems worth the saving when they'll have a contractor mobilised to build the stations. Getting another one engaged in (say) 5 years just to lengthen the platforms under a new project with all its admin and overheads will be an order of magnitude more expensive than the uplift if done as part of the initial opening, I would hazard a guess.
 

Trainbike46

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The five to three reduction would be shortsighted and just means disruption and extra costs when the platforms inevitably need lengthening in a few years. As they're only proposing an initial hourly service, it might lead to overcrowding on one or two trains at peaks if the poor frequency doesn't manage to put people off completely; the time honoured trick of coupling an extra unit for a few peak workings being unavailable with short platforms. Such a measure will only save a little on the physical platform construction itself, assuming future extensions will at least be safeguarded and passively or actively provided for in track and signalling layouts, so moving a few signs and just adding 50 odd metres of platform, lighting etc is all that would be required eventually. Hardly seems worth the saving when they'll have a contractor mobilised to build the stations. Getting another one engaged in (say) 5 years just to lengthen the platforms under a new project with all its admin and overheads will be an order of magnitude more expensive than the uplift if done as part of the initial opening, I would hazard a guess.
3-car platforms also sounds like an operational headache, as you couldn't even sub in a 2x2 v a 3-car if needed
 

MarkyT

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3-car platforms also sounds like an operational headache, as you couldn't even sub in a 2x2 v a 3-car if needed
I'd go for at least 130m for most new platforms on secondary lines today especially those for services doing suburban duties around major provincial cities. Sufficient for 5x cars of up to 26m (22x, 80x, 165, 166, Various Alstom things). Also 6x 20m vehicles. On busy non - London corridors I'd consider further safeguarding for at least 8x20m for any new platform construction. 4 car UK FLIRTs, plus their power pods, are the same total length as a traditional 4x20m unit such as GWRs Electrostars. Future Alstom Coradia-based alternatives will likely share a similar architecture and can no doubt be supplied in a similar length. So I'd say 100m should be a minimum anywhere to accommodate 4x20m, 5x20m 4x25m or a single modern FLIRT or Coradia. The next step would be 130m to allow small IETs and Voyagers as well. and various additional combinations of splinters and turbos.
 

Brissle Girl

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As I understand it the reduction to 3 coaches was mandated a couple of years ago, so is a done deal, and not really new news.
 

Snow1964

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I'd go for at least 130m for most new platforms on secondary lines today especially those for services doing suburban duties around major provincial cities. Sufficient for 5x cars of up to 26m (22x, 80x, 165, 166, Various Alstom things). Also 6x 20m vehicles. On busy non - London corridors I'd consider further safeguarding for at least 8x20m for any new platform construction. 4 car UK FLIRTs, plus their power pods, are the same total length as a traditional 4x20m unit such as GWRs Electrostars. Future Alstom Coradia-based alternatives will likely share a similar architecture and can no doubt be supplied in a similar length. So I'd say 100m should be a minimum anywhere to accommodate 4x20m, 5x20m 4x25m or a single modern FLIRT or Coradia. The next step would be 130m to allow small IETs and Voyagers as well. and various additional combinations of splinters and turbos.
I'm not sure 130m is that helpful, there is a suggestion that GWR is looking at 3car units for new Bristol metro stock (no more 2car units when the 33 year old 165s go)

So really should be looking at pairs of 3car (for rush hours), so really need platforms 140-145m. I think the new stations towards Henbury line are being built to 150m, so having Portishead line restricted to short trains makes no sense, the extra marginal cost of longer platforms as a fraction of whole scheme cost is miniscule.
 

Irascible

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I wouldn’t worry about the platform length, it’s never going to be built, is it?

Not without the south-west declaring itself an independent nation, no. How far have we got to go before admin/preliminary costs will exceed the implementation costs?
 

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