Why Are People Still Testing and Subsequently Isolating With Mild or Asymptomatic Covid?

[Berliner]

I still have 3 or 4 boxes of self-tests. Never know when they may be needed again (note: I do not want anything like 2020/2021 to return, but I am ready if it does and we see shortages of tests again, this does not make me a locktivist/maskivist/testivist).

That said, I was feeling slightly ill for the first time in over 2 years last week and I took a test for the hell of it (I was off work for a week anyway and had no real plasn to socialise). It came back negative, which surprised me somewhat as I had a few symptoms and had been around a few positive cases the week before, but the symptoms all vanished the next morning so I was confident I had still managed to evade covid.

 

[kristiang85]

People to need to be mature enough to realise that all this taking time off when not absolutely necessary is directly contributing to the whole cost-push inflation situation from which we are suffering. Quite simply, high levels of absence will be contributing to lower productivity and/or higher costs for businesses, which will of course be fed through to the consumer.

I hope people judge their freeby weeks off here and there were worth is when they find their finances under pressure later in the year.

Exactly. I said back in furlough days when people were merrily posting on social media about their wonderful free time off in the sun that it will come back to bite us all at some point. Unfortunately it has, and a lot of people in this country are still in this habit that work is something that they now have an easy get out clause from... The appalling lack of many services "because of COVID" attitude that still pervades is evidence of this.

I must admit I don't really hide my resentment that I worked all through the pandemic and yet I am going to financially suffer for choices I didn't make whilst many others in this country at least had a lovely summer in 2020... (That is NOT aimed at those who did suffer on 80% pay and were stressed at the uncertainty of the future of their jobs; but there were plenty on social media who were absolutely loving it).

I did like seeing the outrage at Truss' comments about British people being quite workshy, yet at the same time many of these people are still testing like nobody's business hoping for the red lines, to call in despite feeling absolutely fine.

 

[bramling]

Or in the public sector less money for pay rises.

Absolutely, that as well.

 

[yorkie]

Because they can, they won't lose any pay, they won't be criticised in their back-to-work interview or performance review, and a fellow teacher gets a week's supply work.

I don't think many teachers would think this way at all.

Some workplaces are indeed plagued by a workforce who are desperate to test themselves in order to have time off work when they feel fine, but schools aren't among them.

As for the remark "and a fellow teacher gets a week's supply work", I'm not quite sure if this is intended to be some form of sarcasm or a joke? If it's a serious claim (the absence of a winking smiley indicates to me that it intended to be so), then I don't see any evidence any teacher who feels fine would try to get time off work in order to give a supply teacher work and the idea of this being the case is absurd; it is not only costly for the employer but is also extremely disruptive for the children.

I can't figure out if this post is intended to be a criticism of teachers, or of workers in general, or if it's actually trying to normalise such behaviour; the problem with written speech is that it lacks cues which are conveyed by tone of voice and/or body language which you get with in-person discussions.

Yep, we are all desperate for time off whilst being held over targets to get our children back to where they were pre COVID-19. Think we have time to be off as and when?

The majority of teachers are indeed keen to be at work.

Who said they felt fine?

The whole thread is about people who feel fit enough to work who then go on to try to get time off work.

One colleague was unwell and another was asked to test to accompany his wife into hospital to see her psych-committed mother-in-law. Tested positive. No hospital visit and the ruling from HR was work from home via government suggestion.

If you are unwell, you are unwell. That's completely different and is not what this thread is about. There is no need to complete any sort of test to get time off work if you are unwell.

It sounds like your colleagues are testing in order to justify taking time off work. If the school has any sense (and I realise that’s by no means certain!) it will rigorously enforce its attendance at work policy.

Don't believe the claim that school staff are testing themselves, when they feel well enough to work, on the basis that they hope for a positive Covid test in order to justify time off work.

It isn't remotely credible and it looks like @Bayum simply misunderstood what this thread is actually about.

Well it sounds like some teachers think they do. You’re the one who said people with no symptoms are testing and isolating, despite being well enough to work!

It sounds like a misunderstanding has occurred, as it seems @Bayum didn't realise the thread is about people who feel well enough to work. In any case I wouldn't take the claims of one person to be in any way representative of how teachers think or behave; as with any other profession you will get a wide range of answers between differing individuals but as a whole teachers tend to be very dedicated, hard-working and less likely than the average worker to call in sick without very good reason.

I still have 3 or 4 boxes of self-tests. Never know when they may be needed again (note: I do not want anything like 2020/2021 to return, but I am ready if it does and we see shortages of tests again, this does not make me a locktivist/maskivist/testivist).

That said, I was feeling slightly ill for the first time in over 2 years last week and I took a test for the hell of it (I was off work for a week anyway and had no real plasn to socialise). It came back negative, which surprised me somewhat as I had a few symptoms and had been around a few positive cases the week before, but the symptoms all vanished the next morning so I was confident I had still managed to evade covid.

How old are the tests and do they have an expiry date? I saw several boxes of lateral flow tests with "expired May 2022" written on them for disposal the other day.

In any case a negative test result doesn't guarantee you didn't have an infection.

 

[Dai Corner]

So why are they still testing for covid when there is no need to and staying of work when they feel fine?

I don't think many teachers would think this way at all.

Some workplaces are indeed plagued by a workforce who are desperate to test themselves in order to have time off work when they feel fine, but schools aren't among them.

As for the remark "and a fellow teacher gets a week's supply work", I'm not quite sure if this is intended to be some form of sarcasm or a joke? If it's a serious claim (the absence of a winking smiley indicates to me that it intended to be so), then I don't see any evidence any teacher who feels fine would try to get time off work in order to give a supply teacher work and the idea of this being the case is absurd; it is not only costly for the employer but is also extremely disruptive for the children.

I can't figure out if this post is intended to be a criticism of teachers, or of workers in general, or if it's actually trying to normalise such behaviour; the problem with written speech is that it lacks cues which are conveyed by tone of voice and/or body language which you get with in-person discussions.

Please read my post in conjunction with the one I was responding to (quoted above). I was attempting to explain the previous poster's observation. No humour, sarcasm or criticism was intended. Just reporting of what I'd witnessed.

In my time working in a school it was well known that certain staff had a poor sickness record. The business manager, responsible for HR issues, had a list of the top ten. One or two had had major health issues (heart attacks etc) but many were off repeatedly with minor ailments. A poor sickness record seemed to make no difference to their promotion prospects or ability to secure jobs in other schools. I don't think the question was ever asked when seeking references.

Obviously your experience may vary.

 

[Sm5]

Slight tangent, I just took a cruise, from Italy.

Advice was fairly standard.. nothing required aside of proof of vaccination, if your over 12. Under 12 nothing required. But unvaccinated over 12 cannot board…total ban.

on the day, the port authorities set up a random testing, primarily selecting random kids under 12.

As you can imagine it was pretty scary for younger kids to be taken away from parents to be screened and returned to the parents 10 minutes or so later, some parents werent accepting it willingly either,though aside of the testing tent itself, you could see the kids and several were bauling and crying whilst they waited, others didnt care.

However as we entered the hall, there was this american woman in full meltdown screaming at the officials… apparently her party of what looked like 6/7 were barred from boarding as one of their kids had tested positive… I recall her going off that they’d spent $20k on their vacation (no idea what that breakdown), but it was clearly a land mine moment for their vacation.

So was the random test a good thing ?
Had the random test achieved its goal ?

 

[sjpowermac]

Because they can, they won't lose any pay, they won't be criticised in their back-to-work interview or performance review, and a fellow teacher gets a week's supply work.

Do you have a source to back up your claim?

In my experience, teachers tend to be guilty of presenteeism. Short term supply teachers don’t (usually) mark books, write reports or gather data on student performance. Any teacher taking time off will tend to have a large backlog of work when they get back.

I’ve read your comment above about your time working in school and it’s not one that I even remotely recognise after 26 years in the profession.

 

[Dai Corner]

Do you have a source to back up your claim?

In my experience, teachers tend to be guilty of presenteeism. Short term supply teachers don’t (usually) mark books, write reports or gather data on student performance. Any teacher taking time off will tend to have a large backlog of work when they get back.

I’ve read your comment above about your time working in school and it’s not one that I even remotely recognise after 26 years in the profession.

As I said above, your experience may vary.

How do you explain the previous poster's observation?

 

[sjpowermac]

As I said above, your experience may vary.

How do you explain the previous poster's observation?

So you actually just made it up and have no evidence.

In my time working in a school it was well known that certain staff had a poor sickness record. The business manager, responsible for HR issues, had a list of the top ten. One or two had had major health issues (heart attacks etc) but many were off repeatedly with minor ailments. A poor sickness record seemed to make no difference to their promotion prospects or ability to secure jobs in other schools. I don't think the question was ever asked when seeking references.

Obviously your experience may vary.

You seem to have a very intimate knowledge of the medical/attendance records of your colleagues and it seems very unprofessional of the Business Manger to have been discussing this with you.

For the record, I’ve had three days absence in 26 years. Regarding the pandemic, from May 2020 onwards I worked full time in person in school.

I really object to your rather bitter post.

I don't think many teachers would think this way at all.

Some workplaces are indeed plagued by a workforce who are desperate to test themselves in order to have time off work when they feel fine, but schools aren't among them.

As for the remark "and a fellow teacher gets a week's supply work", I'm not quite sure if this is intended to be some form of sarcasm or a joke? If it's a serious claim (the absence of a winking smiley indicates to me that it intended to be so), then I don't see any evidence any teacher who feels fine would try to get time off work in order to give a supply teacher work and the idea of this being the case is absurd; it is not only costly for the employer but is also extremely disruptive for the children.

I can't figure out if this post is intended to be a criticism of teachers, or of workers in general, or if it's actually trying to normalise such behaviour; the problem with written speech is that it lacks cues which are conveyed by tone of voice and/or body language which you get with in-person discussions.


The majority of teachers are indeed keen to be at work.

The whole thread is about people who feel fit enough to work who then go on to try to get time off work.

If you are unwell, you are unwell. That's completely different and is not what this thread is about. There is no need to complete any sort of test to get time off work if you are unwell.


Don't believe the claim that school staff are testing themselves, when they feel well enough to work, on the basis that they hope for a positive Covid test in order to justify time off work.

It isn't remotely credible and it looks like @Bayum simply misunderstood what this thread is actually about.


It sounds like a misunderstanding has occurred, as it seems @Bayum didn't realise the thread is about people who feel well enough to work. In any case I wouldn't take the claims of one person to be in any way representative of how teachers think or behave; as with any other profession you will get a wide range of answers between differing individuals but as a whole teachers tend to be very dedicated, hard-working and less likely than the average worker to call in sick without very good reason.

This has all overwhelmingly been my experience of both teachers and school staff in general.

 

[43066]

People to need to be mature enough to realise that all this taking time off when not absolutely necessary is directly contributing to the whole cost-push inflation situation from which we are suffering. Quite simply, high levels of absence will be contributing to lower productivity and/or higher costs for businesses, which will of course be fed through to the consumer.

I hope people judge their freeby weeks off here and there were worth is when they find their finances under pressure later in the year.

Absolutely. There is an uncomfortably large % of people in this country who swing the lead at any opportunity and have used Covid as a slackers’ charter. Many of those calling for lockdowns/furlough to continue were in this category.

I did like seeing the outrage at Truss' comments about British people being quite workshy, yet at the same time many of these people are still testing like nobody's business hoping for the red lines, to call in despite feeling absolutely fine.

Much as I don’t like the woman, I think she was exactly right on that point.

Don't believe the claim that school staff are testing themselves, when they feel well enough to work, on the basis that they hope for a positive Covid test in order to justify time off work.

I’m sure most diligent school staff aren’t. It was a little worrying that @Bayum seemed to imply that many staff at his school were doing so.

It isn't remotely credible and it looks like @Bayum simply misunderstood what this thread is actually about.

I agree credibility is sorely lacking. It’s not the first time that poster has made dubious claims and their contributions should be read (and weighted) accordingly!

 

[Dai Corner]

So you actually just made it up and have no evidence.

You seem to have a very intimate knowledge of the medical/attendance records of your colleagues and it seems very unprofessional of the Business Manger to have been discussing this with you.

For the record, I’ve had three days absence in 26 years. Regarding the pandemic, from May 2020 onwards I worked full time in person in school.

I really object to your rather bitter post.


This has all overwhelmingly been my experience of both teachers and school staff in general.

The BM didn't disclose any personal details, obviously, only saying that I'd gone to the top of his list having been off sick for six months following a serious medical episode.

It's not hard to notice who's not in when the supply teacher covering them is sent to you to be issued with logon credentials so they can access teaching materials and do the register.

I'm pleased to hear that you have enjoyed such good health over such a long period.

I'm sorry that you read my factual posts as 'bitter'. That wasn't the impression I intend to convey.

 

[yorkie]

Please read my post in conjunction with the one I was responding to (quoted above). I was attempting to explain the previous poster's observation. No humour, sarcasm or criticism was intended. Just reporting of what I'd witnessed.

In my time working in a school it was well known that certain staff had a poor sickness record. The business manager, responsible for HR issues, had a list of the top ten. One or two had had major health issues (heart attacks etc) but many were off repeatedly with minor ailments.

I will concede there will be some staff at schools who have poor sickness records for no apparent reason (i.e. excluding those with major health conditions), but the experience of myself and others I know (I am not a teacher myself but I know a lot of teachers; indeed there are several on this forum and I can immediately think of at least half a dozen teachers / former teachers on here, who I've met personally) is that these people are very much in the minority.

A poor sickness record seemed to make no difference to their promotion prospects or ability to secure jobs in other schools. I don't think the question was ever asked when seeking references.

Within the school? If their record was poor, I struggle to believe that (though it may depend on whether they were in favour with the senior leadership team and that sort of thing; of course 'poor' is subjective and your idea of a poor record may be different to someone else's)

As for the question being asked in references, what you will find is that references will ask if 'disciplinary action' has been taken; if a member of staff has a particularly poor sickness reference, this will result in such an action, which would then go on their record.

So, someone could have a sickness record that is fairly poor but is just under the threshold to trigger disciplinary action and then, yes perhaps it wouldn't affect their ability to secure jobs in other schools.

Obviously your experience may vary.

I'd concur with the post above by @sjpowermac.

I don't recall hearing the term presenteeism before, but having looked it up, I'd say that is spot on.

I'm sorry that you read my factual posts as 'bitter'. That wasn't the impression I intend to convey.

The problem with written text is there is a lot of scope for interpretation; if it was an in-person conversation we'd have both body language and tone of voice available to assist us.

This thread has been further complicated due to the fact it was specifically set up to discuss people who are well enough to work but it seems some of the replies appear to have been on a rather different basis to that, which led to confusion and conflict.

 

[johnnychips]

I’m a teacher, and actually I think everyone is right to some extent. Yes there are a small minority of staff who have miraculously caught COVID four times, but most are ultra-professional and get to work if they can. Indeed, this can be annoying if they give everyone else their colds.
My workplace gave staff the choice of optional tests, and some regularly did this, while most didn’t bother after the first wave, unless they had symptoms.
As somebody else pointed out, having a day off is a pain: you need to set work, it isn’t often done as you wish, you get behind on your admin and so on.
I haven’t had a day off for years except for funerals, but I wouldn’t drag myself in if I were ill. I think I’m lucky to have a good immune system and also managed to catch COVID at Xmas (two days of a runny nose).

 

[sjpowermac]

The BM didn't disclose any personal details, obviously, only saying that I'd gone to the top of his list having been off sick for six months following a serious medical episode.

It's not hard to notice who's not in when the supply teacher covering them is sent to you to be issued with logon credentials so they can access teaching materials and do the register.

I'm pleased to hear that you have enjoyed such good health over such a long period.

I'm sorry that you read my factual posts as 'bitter'. That wasn't the impression I intend to convey.

Yes, I have been fortunate in enjoying good health, but also been part of the ‘presenteeism’ culture that @yorkie, @johnnychips and myself have mentioned to you.

Whilst you may well have been handing out ‘logon credentials’ to supply teachers, I’m a bit nonplussed as to how that gave you to ability to diagnose which of your colleagues were genuinely ill. If not bitter, your comments do seem very toxic towards your colleagues.

Are you able to share with us any data on how likely different groups of workers are to take a Covid test whilst experiencing mild symptoms and be absent from work? Since you’ve raised the topic, I’m genuinely curious.

Or was this just an excuse to use some circumstantial evidence to take a pop at teachers?

 

[Dai Corner]

Yes, I have been fortunate in enjoying good health, but also been part of the ‘presenteeism’ culture that @yorkie, @johnnychips and myself have mentioned to you.

Whilst you may well have been handing out ‘logon credentials’ to supply teachers, I’m a bit nonplussed as to how that gave you to ability to diagnose which of your colleagues were genuinely ill. If not bitter, your comments do seem very toxic towards your colleagues.

Are you able to share with us any data on how likely different groups of workers are to take a Covid test whilst experiencing mild symptoms and be absent from work? Since you’ve raised the topic, I’m genuinely curious.

Or was this just an excuse to use some circumstantial evidence to take a pop at teachers?

As the three of you have mentioned, teachers generally enjoy very good health. The minority who apparently didn't often said which ailment they'd had when they they came back to work. They may have been lying to avoid revealing they had some more serious condition which resulted in repeated short absences, I'll grant you.

I haven't researched such data, but it seems plausible that those who enjoy generous sick pay and little comeback for absences would be more likely to take Covid tests even if they have no symptoms in the hope of a positive result and some paid leave.

Im not 'having a pop at teachers' in particular; they're simply the only. group I know anything about. You seem to be very defensive. @johnnychips has confirmed that he has colleagues who have 'miraculously caught Covid four times'.

 

[sjpowermac]

As the three of you have mentioned, teachers generally enjoy very good health. The minority who apparently didn't often said which ailment they'd had when they they came back to work. They may have been lying to avoid revealing they had some more serious condition which resulted in repeated short absences, I'll grant you.

I haven't researched such data, but it seems plausible that those who enjoy generous sick pay and little comeback for absences would be more likely to take Covid tests even if they have no symptoms in the hope of a positive result and some paid leave. I backed this up from my past experience in school.

Im not 'having a pop at teachers' in particular; they're simply the only group I know anything about. You seem to be very defensive. @johnnychips has confirmed that he has colleagues who have 'miraculously caught Covid four times'.

On a personal level, please explain what it is that you think I have to be ‘defensive’ about? I think you are just trying to divert attention.

All I’ve asked you to do is back up your claim, which you haven’t, so why not admit that you made it up?

You’ve now admitted that you don’t really know if the colleagues you accused of being off without good cause really were ill or not. That spoils your appeal to circumstantial evidence.

I also note your twisting of what has been said into ‘teachers enjoy very good health’ rather than ‘teachers tend to drag themselves into work when others would not.’

Are you claiming that teachers are more likely to be absent with mild cases of Covid than other groups of workers? If you are, then please state it clearly and show data to backup your claim.

Regarding the instance mentioned by @johnnychips, so what?

If one of my colleagues is off ill then I assume they are ill and I will have a pleasant word with them when they get back to see if there’s anything I can do to help them with their return e.g. covering a break time duty. Everyone who I’m friends with at work operates in the same way.

Applying the school absence policy isn’t part of my job description, was it part of yours?

 

[nedchester]

Slight tangent, I just took a cruise, from Italy.

Advice was fairly standard.. nothing required aside of proof of vaccination, if your over 12. Under 12 nothing required. But unvaccinated over 12 cannot board…total ban.

on the day, the port authorities set up a random testing, primarily selecting random kids under 12.

As you can imagine it was pretty scary for younger kids to be taken away from parents to be screened and returned to the parents 10 minutes or so later, some parents werent accepting it willingly either,though aside of the testing tent itself, you could see the kids and several were bauling and crying whilst they waited, others didnt care.

However as we entered the hall, there was this american woman in full meltdown screaming at the officials… apparently her party of what looked like 6/7 were barred from boarding as one of their kids had tested positive… I recall her going off that they’d spent $20k on their vacation (no idea what that breakdown), but it was clearly a land mine moment for their vacation.

So was the random test a good thing ?
Had the random test achieved its goal ?

The cost sounds about about right as we’ve just had a family holiday in the USA for about the same price (pro-data). Fortunately, pre departure testing for the USA was removed a few weeks before we left and it was something that concerned me as we got closer to the departure date.

A friend of my wife’s took a cruise from Spain. Travelled all the way overland to Barcelona just carrying a proof of vaccination. But before getting on the cruise that had to get a local PCR (not LFT) to board the boat! (This was three weeks ago!) Utter madness!

 

[ChrisC]

I don't think many teachers would think this way at all.

Some workplaces are indeed plagued by a workforce who are desperate to test themselves in order to have time off work when they feel fine, but schools aren't among them.

This certainly was my experience during my nearly 40 years of teaching in a primary school. In the school where I worked there was more of a problem of staff coming into work when they really were ill and should have stayed at home. I can remember a number of years when, especially during the lead up to Christmas, we all came in despite not being at well because we didn’t want to disappoint the children by disrupting their Christmas Nativity performances and parties. We also didn’t want let our colleagues down and leave them with extra work to cover for us. After being coughed and sneezed on by the young children for weeks it was usually just before a holiday that the teachers began to get ill. Probably wrongly, we kept coming into work, and then were really ill for the first few days of the holiday.

Apart from having a few days off work after my dad died, I only had two times in all those years when I had time off work due to illness. They were both when I really did have the genuine flu and was in bed for at least a week each time.

 

[Dai Corner]

On a personal level, please explain what it is that you think I have to be ‘defensive’ about? I think you are just trying to divert attention.

All I’ve asked you to do is back up your claim, which you haven’t, so why not admit that you made it up?

You’ve now admitted that you don’t really know if the colleagues you accused of being off without good cause really were ill or not. That spoils your appeal to circumstantial evidence.

I also note your twisting of what has been said into ‘teachers enjoy very good health’ rather than ‘teachers tend to drag themselves into work when others would not.’

Are you claiming that teachers are more likely to be absent with mild cases of Covid than other groups of workers? If you are, then please state it clearly and show data to backup your claim.

Regarding the instance mentioned by @johnnychips, so what?

If one of my colleagues is off ill then I assume they are ill and I will have a pleasant word with them when they get back to see if there’s anything I can do to help them with their return e.g. covering a break time duty. Everyone who I’m friends with at work operates in the same way.

Applying the school absence policy isn’t part of my job description, was it part of yours?

Lets leave aside the late night emotive parts of our discussion.

My evidence that short-term sickness absence was significant in the school I worked in can be summarised as follows.

• Talking to the absentees
• Seeing how many supply teachers were booked and who they covered.
• Talking to the business manger, who of course didn't mention any names but told me he analysed the sickness returns and had noticed patterns. As any good manager should.
• The BM later took on two Cover Supervisors as that worked out cheaper than using supply teachers, suggesting there were generally at least two absences a day amongst the 60ish teaching staff (not all due to sickness, but planned absences were discouraged except in the latter half of the Summer term).

 

[sjpowermac]

Lets leave aside the late night emotive parts of our discussion.

My evidence that short-term sickness absence was significant in the school I worked in can be summarised as follows.

• Talking to the absentees
• Seeing how many supply teachers were booked and who they covered.
• Talking to the business manger, who of course didn't mention any names but told me he analysed the sickness returns and had noticed patterns. As any good manager should.
• The BM later took on two Cover Supervisors as that worked out cheaper than using supply teachers, suggesting there were generally at least two absences a day amongst the 60ish teaching staff (not all due to sickness, but planned absences were discouraged except in the latter half of the Summer term).

It really seems that you had a very unhealthy interest in the business of your colleagues. From what you’ve written there, your attitude seems incredibly toxic and the Business Manager seems like they were completely not up to the job.

I notice that you’ve ducked the question about whether you feel teachers are routinely staying off school when they have mild or no Covid symptoms…

Do feel free to continue with bad mouthing your colleagues, it really shows you in a tremendously poor light.

 

[Dai Corner]

It really seems that you had a very unhealthy interest in the business of your colleagues. From what you’ve written there, your attitude seems incredibly toxic and the Business Manager seems like they were completely not up to the job.

I notice that you’ve ducked the question about whether you feel teachers are routinely staying off school when they have mild or no Covid symptoms…

Do feel free to continue with bad mouthing your colleagues, it really shows you in a tremendously poor light.

I'm just reporting what I noticed, and resent your criticism of the Business Manager who was surely doing his job in monitoring sickness returns and seeking ways to reduce costs. He's very well respected by myself, colleagues and in the wider education and local Government community. I'm sure he dealt fairly with everyone who had been off sick for whatever reason. He certainly did with me during and after my prolonged absence.

I haven't expressed an opinion on whether teachers are routinely staying off when they have mild or no Covid symptoms as I don't know. Readers can draw their own conclusions from what has been posted.

By the way, if you work in a large school do you know who's in or out on a daily basis?

 

[43066]

I notice that you’ve ducked the question about whether you feel teachers are routinely staying off school when they have mild or no Covid symptoms…

Should you not also address that question to @Bayum?

 

[Dai Corner]

Should you not also address that question to @Bayum?

Thanks. It was he, I think, that introduced the topic. I merely attempted a possible explanation for his observation but am getting all the stick.

 

[sjpowermac]

I'm just reporting what I noticed, and resent your criticism of the Business Manager who was surely doing his job in monitoring sickness returns and seeking ways to reduce costs. He's very well respected by myself, colleagues and in the wider education and local Government community. I'm sure he dealt fairly with everyone who had been off sick for whatever reason. He certainly did with me during and after my prolonged absence.

I haven't expressed an opinion on whether teachers are routinely staying off when they have mild or no Covid symptoms as I don't know. Readers can draw their own conclusions from what has been posted.

By the way, if you work in a large school do you know who's in or out on a daily basis?

I have absolutely no idea who is in or out of school and frankly, it’s none of my business.

At least we have cleared up that your post refers to your own personal experience and that you don’t actually have any facts to back up your claims.

Should you not also address that question to @Bayum?

I’ve no idea what goes on in their school and I’m frankly not interested.

 

[Dai Corner]

I have absolutely no idea who is in or out of school and frankly, it’s none of my business.

At least we have cleared up that your post refers to your own personal experience and that you don’t actually have any facts to back up your claims.


I’ve no idea what goes on in their school and I’m frankly not interested.

So I had a pretty good idea about who was in or out of school and you have no idea. Glad we've cleared that up.

Let's wait and see if @Bayum has anything to add.

 

[43066]

I have absolutely no idea who is in or out of school and frankly, it’s none of my business.

At least we have cleared up that your post refers to your own personal experience and that you don’t actually have any facts to back up your claims.


I’ve no idea what goes on in their school and I’m frankly not interested.

It’s just noticeable that he seemed to (at least by implication) level the accusation that @Dai Corner merely expanded upon. In addition to his own school he also claimed to “vouch for many other schools across the country”, yet you’ve not challenged him at all!

 

[Berliner]

How old are the tests and do they have an expiry date? I saw several boxes of lateral flow tests with "expired May 2022" written on them for disposal the other day.

In any case a negative test result doesn't guarantee you didn't have an infection.

They are only a few months old, they were obtained when my local pharmacy was giving them away on the street before they stopped being free. The expiry date varies from late 2023-mid 2024 I think.

I am aware that a negative test doesn't mean I definitely don't have covid, but it's all I had to go on. The fact my symptoms completely vanished the next day after taking a couple of lemsips suggests it was not covid at all and just a bit of congestion/sore throat. Covid would likely have lingered for a few days. Had I been positive my week would not have changed one bit, I'd have still gone to the garden center, gone shopping, etc.

 

[Hans]

They are only a few months old, they were obtained when my local pharmacy was giving them away on the street before they stopped being free. The expiry date varies from late 2023-mid 2024 I think.

I am aware that a negative test doesn't mean I definitely don't have covid, but it's all I had to go on. The fact my symptoms completely vanished the next day after taking a couple of lemsips suggests it was not covid at all and just a bit of congestion/sore throat. Covid would likely have lingered for a few days. Had I been positive my week would not have changed one bit, I'd have still gone to the garden center, gone shopping, etc.

I always have a wry smile at the a negative test doesn't mean you don't have covid - it will be the same people who will criticise anyone who dares mention a positive can be a false positive, telling them if it is positive then it cannot possibly be wrong. The "asymptomatic covid" ruse was one of the best the government came up with. Prior to March 2020, people lived their normal lives with not a thought they "could" be carrying some infectious disease and yet suddenly post March 2020 not only did people think a coronavirus with a miniscule IFR was going to wipe out civilisation, they also believed that a healthy person would infect everyone else.

 

[yorkie]

I always have a wry smile at the a negative test doesn't mean you don't have covid

You have to consider that the test is looking for the presence of an antigen and there are limitations with that.

A negative result doesn't guarantee you don't have an infection, though perhaps more importantly it means it is unlikely you are infectious.

Test results for COVID-19

Find out what your NHS COVID-19 rapid lateral flow test result means.

www.nhs.uk

A negative result means it’s likely you are not infectious.

But a negative test is not a guarantee you do not have COVID-19...

Furthermore, a positive test doesn't mean you are necessarily infectious.

it will be the same people who will criticise anyone who dares mention a positive can be a false positive.

I wouldn't criticise anyone for saying that.

The "asymptomatic covid" ruse was one of the best ruses the government came up with. Prior to March 2020, people lived their normal lives with not a thought they "could" be carrying some infectious disease and yet suddenly post March 2020 not only did people think a coronavirus with a miniscule IFR was going to wipe out civilisation, they also believed that a healthy person could infect others.

Well I don't want to go too much into detail of unpicking this post, but what we do know is that studies have been conducted and reached conflicting conclusions; there is still no test for infectiousness. I am prepared to keep an open mind on the subject, though my suspicion is that an asymptomatically infectious person is less likely to be infectious (or would at least be less likely to be as infectious) compared to someone with symptoms. Perhaps much less likely, but we really don't know.

It’s just noticeable that he seemed to (at least by implication) level the accusation that @Dai Corner merely expanded upon. In addition to his own school he also claimed to “vouch for many other schools across the country”, yet you’ve not challenged him at all!

I will defend @sjpowermac here by pointing out that it is clear @Bayum has got confused about the premise of the thread and therefore anyone involved in the debate may be holding off until the confusion has been clarified?

Also I will point out that not replying to a particular member does not imply agreement. At the end of the day people may wish to reply to one particular remark and not another and you can't read too much into that.

In all honesty I think the thread has pretty much run its course; much (all?) of the disagreement in this thread appears to be due to a misunderstanding regarding what the opening post was saying, i.e. that it specifically related to people who are not unwell and are fit enough to be at work, rather than people who are genuinely ill.

 

[sjpowermac]

So I had a pretty good idea about who was in or out of school and you have no idea. Glad we've cleared that up.

Let's wait and see if @Bayum has anything to add.

I really have absolutely no idea why you think I should make it my business to monitor staff absences in the detail that you claim to have done.

Are you now claiming that @yorkie, @ChrisC @johnnychips and myself are all incorrect in claiming that in our experience teachers tend to go into work on occasions when they really should have stayed at home?

Regarding cover supervisors, at my school they get used for a variety of tasks in addition to covering staff illnesses. A very frequent use is to cover for senior staff who have teaching responsibilities but also have to attend external meetings (such as safeguarding meetings/review boards for managed moves of students struggling in school/SEN reviews). I fail to see how in your school all such meetings can be pushed to the summer term. When no lessons require covering they are then deployed as teaching assistants.

Now, here’s a little reminder of what you said earlier:

Because they can, they won't lose any pay, they won't be criticised in their back-to-work interview or performance review, and a fellow teacher gets a week's supply work.

You claim not to be having a dig at teachers, so perhaps you would explain what aspect of this post is complimentary?

If what you have written there about supply work is actually true of your school and this is something that is/was routinely occurring, then that’s a very serious accusation and I’m very surprised that a ‘well regarded’ Business Manager allowed this to happen under their nose.