LU/Elizabeth Line 4G update

[MrJeeves]

Seems really odd to me that the kit is in, there's already network backhaul at these stations (for WiFi), yet they can't get at least the stations up quicker.

Backhaul is in, yeah, but not to the same level that would be required for mobile coverage. I think the 4G/5G network on the Tube has 10 Gigabit capable backhaul to each radio node (they use Cat 6a Ethernet cables), but the radio equipment or transmission network won't saturate that due to various limitations.

Additionally, these antennas run off RF signals produced by radio equipment in "baseband hotels" across the network. These aren't all up and operational yet, and rely on the networks installing their radio equipment and feeding it into Boldyn's equipment to then get sent out to these active antenna nodes across stations.

There's a lot more to it than just turning on a WiFi Access Point.

Example baseband hotel from https://www.wired.co.uk/article/london-underground-4g

 

[James H]

Tried it out at TCR yesterday on O2 - worked great

 

[Gigabit]

I was at Notting Hill Gate last week as I decided to go home via Wimbledon for a change. The whole station, both the Central line and District/Circl line platforms, and connecting passageways seem flooded with boxes. I noticed that they had ingeniously hidden some of the boxes behind the station name signs on the District and Circle line platforms. It was difficult to say if these were active though. There was a strong Vodafone signal but I’m very rarely at NHG so I don’t know of any difference. Maybe there is a strong signal in that area?

I was disappointed though at the woeful state of reception south of East Putney, some things never change. Hopefully Boldyn will improve reception here in time.

That's my station! It's terrible, same at Southfields. Neither of these locations are on the procured list of coverage improvement stations except for the tunnel which they are already covering. Already has O2 coverage because of a micro-cell placed above it.

The Wimbledon branch is not Network Rail track. The branch is owned by London Underground, it is the signalling and power supplies that are controlled by Network Rail.

The fact that the tunnel between East Putney and Southfields is being fitted with it suggests there is no barrier in any case.

The tunnel yes but none of the above ground sections despite coverage not being consistent. If the promise is "uninterrupted" coverage they'd struggle to fulfil that if you are travelling on that branch.

East Putney has no coverage in the ticket halls at all - but not on the list.

 

[JonnyM]

Tried it out at TCR yesterday on O2 - worked great

TfL’s website is now saying the signal is available in the tunnels between TCR and Goodge Street on the Northern line. I think this is new?

 

[Gigabit]

Underground Wi-Fi seems fixed at least. Now getting normal speeds again.

 

[Dstock7080]

Along with the release of the coverage map, an update for Staff:

- Further sections of the Northern and Central line will receive coverage in the coming months and by the end of the year, 33 stations with platforms that are underground, as well as connecting tunnels, will have mobile coverage, increasing to more than 40 stations by Spring 2024.
- In the coming weeks and months we will introduce mobile coverage at other stations along the Northern and Central lines, including Goodge Street, Chancery Lane and Bank. We will also introduce mobile coverage to the southern end of the Northern line, with the first sections going live during Summer 2024.
- The Jubilee line’s existing 4G coverage will be upgraded to bring 5G connectivity between Westminster and Canning Town.
- Initial testing will shortly begin on the Bakerloo, Victoria and Piccadilly lines ahead of the installation of technology to allow 4G and 5G to be introduced on these lines starting later this year.
- On the Elizabeth line the first stations to benefit from high-speed connectivity will be Bond Street, Tottenham Court Road, Farringdon and Liverpool Street, which will be live by the end of the 2023. All Elizabeth line stations and tunnelled sections are due to receive 4G coverage by the end of Spring 2024.
- Mobile connectivity will also be expanded to the DLR, while the London Overground will be connected between Highbury & Islington and New Cross within the next two years.
A significant proportion of the entire Tube network (around 80 per cent of stations) and the Elizabeth line are expected to have mobile coverage by the end of 2024.

 

[JonnyM]

Underground Wi-Fi seems fixed at least. Now getting normal speeds again.

I think it is to do with load on the system, they need to put in extra capacity. Weekends seem fine, week day mornings and evenings are awful.

 

[Gigabit]

I think it is to do with load on the system, they need to put in extra capacity. Weekends seem fine, week day mornings and evenings are awful.

It’s very strange as BBC always works fine, almost like it is some kind of QoS.

 

[mrmartin]

It’s very strange as BBC always works fine, almost like it is some kind of QoS.

BBC has very small, well optimized pages for the most part (also no ads which can be 90%+ of a webpages file size), so probably works far better than most in poor service.

 

[Gigabit]

BBC has very small, well optimized pages for the most part (also no ads which can be 90%+ of a webpages file size), so probably works far better than most in poor service.

Yeah but I've literally had a page not loading at all, just sitting there and then flip to BBC and it loads instantly, flick back to the other page and refresh and it gets stuck again. I am sure they prioritise news sites.

Either way, this is just a reason that they should disable the auto-joining or turn off the Wi-Fi altogether at stations with 4G/5G, because that always works better and you don't have the constant connect/disconnect issue.

 

[JonnyM]

Underground Wi-Fi seems fixed at least. Now getting normal speeds again.

Having testing it this morning and again this evening the speed was a lot better and usable. Hopefully it isn't a blip and they've put in a bit more capacity. I did a 'manual roam' on my iPhone, not sure if that had anything to do with it. (?).

Spotted this at TCR.

 

[rmt4ever]

Having testing it this morning and again this evening the speed was a lot better and usable. Hopefully it isn't a blip and they've put in a bit more capacity. I did a 'manual roam' on my iPhone, not sure if that had anything to do with it. (?).

Spotted this at TCR.

View attachment 144533

What a utterly cringy advertising sign. This mayor will stop at nothing to blow his own trumpet

 

[stuu]

What a utterly cringy advertising sign. This mayor will stop at nothing to blow his own trumpet

It is cringy, but nothing new. They used to put a photo of Livingstone on everything, I can't imagine Johnson missed an opportunity for self promotion either

 

[JonnyM]

What a utterly cringy advertising sign. This mayor will stop at nothing to blow his own trumpet

Cringy indeed. What would have been a much better advert is an apology for the broken promises, missed deadlines and TfL/Mr Mayor constantly moving the goalposts with the rollout so far.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

It is cringy, but nothing new. They used to put a photo of Livingstone on everything, I can't imagine Johnson missed an opportunity for self promotion either

Absolutely, we talked about this personality cult a while ago. They're all at it... And I think ads with an asterisk always make the supplier look shifty

 

[rmt4ever]

Absolutely, we talked about this personality cult a while ago. They're all at it... And I think ads with an asterisk always make the supplier look shifty

How they are plugging this is a Green initiative is beyond belief!

 

[Gigabit]

I wonder how they are going to spin the poor coverage on outside parts of the network, are they going to say it doesn't count as they're not "underground"?

 

[TheHSRailFan]

I wonder how they are going to spin the poor coverage on outside parts of the network, are they going to say it doesn't count as they're not "underground"?

That I would think would be up for the networks to do and whoever else does that kind of stuff to set those up.

 

[Gigabit]

That I would think would be up for the networks to do and whoever else does that kind of stuff to set those up.

But why can't TfL give them access to place masts on their land?

 

[winks]

My phone has recently picked this up on the northern line, cant quite remember where; think it was Euston or Camden Town - have to say the speed was superb and better than anything I usually get above ground on 4G/5G

 

[MrJeeves]

My phone has recently picked this up on the northern line, cant quite remember where; think it was Euston or Camden Town - have to say the speed was superb and better than anything I usually get above ground on 4G/5G

Indeed, both of those stations are 4G/5G equipped now.

 

[James H]

Sadiq Khan suggested at this week's TfL board that there has been some effort to speed up the switch-on of mobile signal on the Elizabeth line

 

[MrJeeves]

Euston to Belsize Park is supposedly live in the tunnels, or was last night.

 

[jon0844]

Euston to Belize Park is supposedly live in the tunnels, or was last night.

That's quite impressive progress!

 

[MrJeeves]

That's quite impressive progress!

indeed it would be!

 

[JonnyM]

Sadiq Khan suggested at this week's TfL board that there has been some effort to speed up the switch-on of mobile signal on the Elizabeth line

I think they need to speed up the roll-out across the entire network, not just on the EL. In fact, the more I'm convinced the roll out timetable isn't up to Sadiq Khan or TfL. It's in the hands of the Telcos.

I take this with a grain of salt, but a couple of people I know who work for the telcos (not Boldyn) have told me the announcement a month or so ago was intended to be a lot bigger than it turned out to be. Originally the EL and some more of the Northern and Central line was also going live at that time but in the end it just wasn't ready so the Mayor and TfL had to make do with the section between TCR and Oxford Circus. The map TfL released of current and future coverage was intended to be a bit of a kick to the telcos to get their act together.

Euston to Belsize Park is supposedly live in the tunnels, or was last night.

It would appear that the part between TCR and Warren Street is also live, stations and tunnels. Not sure about Warren St to Euston though.

 

[mrmartin]

EL closed next weekend, and according to ianvisits its for mobile signal works. https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/article...-partial-closure-of-the-elizabeth-line-67447/

 

[JonnyM]

EL closed next weekend, and according to ianvisits its for mobile signal works. https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/article...-partial-closure-of-the-elizabeth-line-67447/

So hopefully public launch soon after? Fingers crossed

 

[mrmartin]

Anyone know any updates? Only a few weeks left really in 2023... less if you think they wouldn't go live over xmas period (not sure if that's true or not for the railway, but most IT projects I've been involved in would do anything to avoid going live over that time period).

 

[Gigabit]

It is live between TCR and Chancery Lane on the Central Line this morning